Although KYC on trusted sites gives us a little more trust, our personal data is still important so as long as it is not needed, why should we provide it.
This may depend on individual choices as a gambler but I think as long as I can still do without KYC it is very good but if it must be forced to do KYC as one of the conditions especially for withdrawals made then inevitably we have to do it.

For this condition I don't really have a problem as long as it is in accordance with the ToS that applies on the site but as long as it is not really needed (for KYC) then I prefer to avoid it.

i'm surprised they even have a feature like this. i don't think any other casino i used before has a "keep me logged in" option, you just log in once and you are set.

i think they intended for it to work like the forum does, but it's not working or is bugged like some other stuff on their website.

what safety? what does logging people out save them from exactly? it's not like players are logging into their casino accounts on random devices.

So far 54.47568145BTC have been "donated" to the Genesis block (or whatever the purpose is to send and very very likely immobilize those coins, bloating the UTXO set). Well... hooray!?

Current balance at time of this post according to combo(PubKey of Genesis block's coinbase) descriptor of my Genesis block watch-only wallet, including the unspendable 50BTC of coinbase tx: 104.47568145BTC (546sat pending/not yet confirmed).

This may differ slightly from what mempool.space or bitcoindata.science displays because the combo() descriptor^{see below} accounts for all address types (except Taproot, IIRC).

It's not that they don't know about my investment, but I told them about it, but they laughed it off and told me that now is their time to have fun, to enjoy, so they are not thinking about the future for now. Those who don't understand can be explained, but those who don't want to understand can't be explained, that's why I stopped discussing these things with them. Now I will just keep trying my best to reach my goal.
When I was a child, my father used to tell me that when you start something, do not consider any work small in the beginning and remember one thing, from the beginning comes the river. I think I am trying my best and by trying my best, the amount of money I can buy Bitcoin with every week is a lot for me. I just want to maintain the continuity of this purchase. Your words will work as more inspiration for me, and I will try to invest more money consistently in the future.

Yes, I also think that it will give us temporary pleasure, but if we forget about this temporary pleasure and think that the future can be beautiful, then maybe we can all think about investing, at any age. I have seen many people who start businesses from their student life, and there is a class of people who are lazy and think that their working age is ahead, basically those who work hard from their student life can reach the highest peak of success.

Maybe buying Bitcoin for $20 every weekend won't change your life much, but considering that my money is being saved through Bitcoin, but the money is not being saved by those who are spending this money on games, I think I'm moving in the right direction. Yes, the investment amount may be less now, but I plan to try to invest more in the future, I have such plans.

Since the beginning, for those crypto users, we understood 1 satoshi already. And if you want to get acquainted with how sats is working in crypto transactions, then, you really need to understand the basics first of this digital currency. Because that's common reference for most crypto users. As mentioned, it is like the metric system of btc currency. Now, it is up to you how you will look at it and make a meaning of what you are holding in terms of sats, mBTC or bits.

Can't blame you to think that way since its really hard to think about on how those guys manage to get a lot of points and be on the top.

That's why same as you I also think the same knowing that each  players have 3 attempts only to participate on that competition. But I didn't bother much to participate on that competition since I think its useless to chase especially if you see people at the top gather already huge points.

The site have logout feature that will logout the account if no activity. I think this is ok and can prevent something harm to your account.

Yes, Remember Me feature keep you logged in without log out automatically. But if the site still activating this feature, the account will logout automatically especially if you leave the site or don't do anything.

Maybe they can modify the setting so when users click Remember Me, the account will not logout automatically.

Actually, that is preventions for safety. But some users feels that is annoy which makes them keep re-login if they don't use the site. We can wait clarification from the teams and what will they said later.

The site concern that the security is an important matter so they just want to protect their users from the things that can harm them.

That can works well if users can ensuring that their devices safe from something that may harm the account. If only them using the devices, that will not be a problem. But if they use the devices together with others, that is not good so they don't have to activate this feature.

Newbies for whom this battle was created are unlikely to reach the top of the leaderboard in just 3 attempts. So those who reach the top of the leaderboard on their first attempts and with a large margin are likely to have multiple accounts. In fact, it's most likely due to such users that Betfury implemented an additional requirement: prizes can only be claimed and withdrawn after reaching rank 2.

I have frequently mentioned that emergency funds (and more so back up funds) are more important in the first or second cycle of accumulating and building up the size of the bitcoin stash as compared with if a person had already been in bitcoin for a while or even if the guy might have had been able to reallocate from other investments into bitcoin.  Let's look at some examples of a guy at various stages of his bitcoin investment journey.

Hypothetical 1 - guy with $30k income & $1,800 per month of expenses - who is within his first two years of building his bitcoin investment (since January 2024). He is investing $80 per week into bitcoin and $40 per week into building his emergency funds/back up funds. It may well take him a year or two before he really starts to feel that he is making progress.  It might take him right around 2.5 years to merely get his emergency fund up to 3 months of his expenses, and then once his emergency fund is a high enough amount, then he might start to invest $120 per week into bitcoin.^**

**Note:  For each of my hypotheticals, to look up average amounts invested, how much spent and how much bitcoin accumulated, you can use a DCA tool, such at this one to get the numbers:  https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/dollar-cost-averaging-calculator

Hypothetical 2 - guy with $30k income & $1,800 per month of expenses - who has been investing for nearly 2 cycles (since January 2018). He started out investing $80 per week into bitcoin and $40 per week into building his emergency funds/back up funds. and maybe after two cycles, he had invested about a whole year and a half of his income into bitcoin, so maybe he is close to 3 bitcoin, so he knows that if he stopped investing into bitcoin now with his 3 BTC, he could generate right around $17k per year income from his bitcoin.  He might be feeling less nervous about the size of his back up funds because he knows that his bitcoin could also back him up for any major emergency, yet at the same time, he would prefer to not dip into his bitcoin until maybe it could support him at a $50k per year or higher income level... so he is concerned about depleting his bitcoin stash, since within the next 4-5 years, he would like to stop working, and he knows that if he either depletes or does not continue to grow his bitcoin stash, then he could delay his timeline for stopping working and earning from work.

Hypothetical 3 - guy with $30k income & $1,800 per month of expenses and came to bitcoin 2 years ago (January 2024).  Before he came to bitcoin, he had already been investing in other assets for more than 15 years, so he already had good financial management in place and sufficient back up funds.  He already knew that within his first year of investing into bitcoin, he was going to put about a year and a half of the size of his income into bitcoin (from his other investments).  Therefore, he invested $900 per week starting in early 2024 and in his first year he invested $48k into bitcoin and accumulated 0.8 BTC.  In the last year, he continued to buy about $200 per week and accumulated another 0.1 BTC... So now his total invested amount is $58k and he has about 0.9 BTC.  He feels that he has to continue to invest as aggressively into bitcoin as he can, and he likely is going to need another 4-6 years investing in bitcoin to get to a point that he might start to feel that he can let off on his accumulation of bitcoin.  He is planning on increasing his income and perhaps his investment amount to beyond $200 per week.

Hypothetical 4 - guy with $30k income & $1,800 per month of expenses and came to bitcoin 2 cycles ago (January 2018).  Before he came to bitcoin, he had already been investing in other assets for more than 15 years, so he already had good financial management in place and sufficient back up funds.  He already knew that within his first year of investing into bitcoin, he was going to put about a year and a half of the size of his income into bitcoin (from his other investments).  Therefore, he invested $900 per week starting in early 2018 and in his first year he invested $48k into bitcoin and accumulated 7 BTC.  He was a bit torn about what to do, yet in the next three years, his income went up a bit, to $40k per year, and he continued to buy bitcoin about $150 per week ($24k in total) and accumulated another 3.2 BTC... So now his total invested amount is $72k and he has about 10.2 BTC.  He feels that he has enough bitcoin or maybe even more than enough, and he looks at the tables and sees that right now with 10.2 BTC, he could start to sustainably withdraw $58k per year from his investment, yet he is thinking that he needs a bit more of a cushion to feel comfortable, so he is thinking that he will wait about 2 more years before he starts to withdraw and he is tentatively thinking that even if he does not build up his bitcoin holdings any larger, in 2 years, he will be able to start to draw at about $80k per year, even if he ONLY has 10.2 BTC.  He is also thinking that right now it is optional for him whether he wants to keep any extra back up funds and his bitcoin can serve as his emergency funds, even though he would prefer not to sell any of his bitcoin at at time that is not of his own choosing - yet he has enough of a cushion to be able to draw several months of his expenses, if he were to need to draw from his bitcoin.

Part of the point that I am trying to make is that emergency funds and back up funds are way more important in the early years of building bitcoin holdings.. even though when the bitcoin stash size grows, a person has more options, yet a person still might want to make sure that he does not draw from his bitcoin at a time that is not of his choosing.  He has more flexibility and more options when he has had several years to grow his bitcoin stash and just the passage of time has also grown his bitcoin stash - especially once he gets into a couple of cycles of building and the passage of time.  At the same time, it is not guaranteed, yet building good investment habits and cashflow management practices likely puts a person in a better place as compared to if he had not built up such good investments and cashflow management habits.


I also have some troubles imagining guys getting to overaccumulatoin prior to 4-years of being in bitcoin especially in the last 3 years, the BTC price had mostly been going up the whole time, so it becomes harder to get to overaccumulation unless you were really able to front load the investment prior to October 2023.. Sure it is possible, but not very many guys get into bitcoin and are able to put a lot of money into bitcoin from the start, and even if they are able to, they might still need to pace themselves in terms of how they deal with their bitcoin.

Maybe I can give an example.. to  continue with my hypotheticals from my other post - above.

Hypothetical 5 - guy with $30k income & $1,800 per month of expenses - who has been investing for 4 years (since January 2022).   Before he came to bitcoin, he had already been investing in other assets for more than 15 years, so he already had good financial management in place and sufficient back up funds.  He already knew that within his first year of investing into bitcoin, he was going to put about a year and a half of the size of his income into bitcoin (from his other investments).  Therefore, he invested $900 per week starting in early 2022 and in his first year he invested $48k into bitcoin and accumulated 2 BTC.  Since the bitcoin price stayed down throughout 2023 (mostly below $30k), he continued to buy about $200 per week and accumulated another 0.4 BTC... So then after two years between early 2022 and late 2023, his total invested amount is $58k and he has about 2.4 BTC. He likely still felt that he did not have enough bitcoin since in early 2024, his 2.4 BTC would still support an income of about $7,200 per year ($600 per month),^** so he felt  hat he has to continue to invest as aggressively into bitcoin as he can, and he likely is going to need another couple of years investing in bitcoin to get to a point that he might start to feel that he can let off on his accumulation of bitcoin.  He is planning on increasing his income and perhaps his investment amount to beyond $200 per week.

**By the way, even though 2.4 BTC would have had ONLY supported an income of $7,200 per year in early 2024, right now (a mere 2 years later), I am of the opinion that 2.4 BTC would support a sustainable income of $13.640 per year ($1,137 per month), so historically, there has been value with the passage of time in merely maintaining the same quantity of bitcoin, even for those guys who might not be able to continue to grow their bitcoin stash.

Of course, maybe we can consider even more extreme scenarios in which a guy is able to reallocate even more into bitcoin, even though it is pretty aggressive to allocate 1.5 years of income into bitcoin in merely 1 year's time... and, surely if guys invest so much into bitcoin, they might not feel that they can invest more or that they might feel that they should start to slow down on their investment, since they had already put a lot of their income into bitcoin.. and yeah, some guys are more fortunate because they have other investments and value that they can draw upon and reallocate into bitcoin, yet an overwhelming majority of people do not have abilities to draw from other sources to be able to reallocate into bitcoin - so we should not be presuming that they have those abilities, even though surely there could be some guys who had either been able to build up other investments prior to coming into bitcoin and/or they come accross decent amounts of money (such as an inheritance or some fortune in their business) so that they are able to come up with a lot of money and then still have to decide the extent to which they are going to put it into bitcoin and if they do decide to put it into bitcoin, what might be the most feasible way for them to accomplish allocating into bitcoin without causing themselves too much stress.

There could be some guys who decide to withdraw a lot of money all at once.. so in the above example of having $48k, which is about 1.5 years of their current income available and to decide to invest most of it, if not all of it at once rather than either deferring by DCA or deferring by buying on dips that might not end up happening.  There can be BIG dilemmas, even with guys who have lump sum amounts available, yet guys with lump sum amounts available surely have more options as compared to an overwhelming majority of normal people who may well struggle to be able to put 10% to 15% of their income into bitcoin... so many times, normal people are going to be, at best, able to put 10% to 15% of their income into bitcoin, and those who are ready, willing and able to put more than 15% into bitcoin are in a good position in terms of the amount of their discretionary income, even though it still might take them some time to build up their bitcoin stash, even if they have decently good amounts of discretionary income that they are able to invest into bitcoin.

Hello Everyone....I am pleased to announce that the raffle draw has officially ended. I want to apologise for the delay in announcing the winners which was supposed to come on the 1st of Jan. I have really been busy with festive season preparations (you know how stressful it can be for women this period).

Here are the winners of the Floxynice Naira Loan Raffle:

1. DaNNy001
2. Nheer
3. Joy- maker

Congratulations to the winners. The above mentioned winners should send me their account details for N20,000 each

Like I said earlier, I used the Bitmover Giveaway tool to determine the winners in a fair system.
https://bitcoindata.science/giveaway-manager/?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

000000000000000000012518a57ae5a932749aaacb31fe53bf5bf46115ccf77d

There is one website that lists active Betpanda domains, but it is better to ask that question someone from official Betpanda website.
I found two different sources and it turned out one was mixed with fake Betpanda domains.
One that looks ok to me is this one, but I dont guarantee anything:

They are partially helping, but they look more like bots than human answers 

If you win, casinos are making money,
If you lose, casinos are making money,
Whether you win or lose therefore, casinos are still making money.
They are the bookmakers,
They are the house edge,
They have a the goat and also have the knife.

Using sats units is fine but it can be confusing to many people, and you can't send 1 sat to other wallet on bitcoin main chain.
mBTC is another popular unit that is used more in crypto casinos, but I think this would work better for most people.
People should first do basic education about bitcoin and learn how bitcoin unites work, and this website could help for converting units:
https://bitcoindata.science/bitcoin-units-converter

As I said, there is no official website listing mirrors of betpanda.
That website has been created by PX-Z

---

PX-Z has listed the domains that are confirmed as official on betpandamirrors.com and they are as follows.

• betpanda.io
• betpanda.partners
• betpandacasino.io

betpanda.partners should be official, because that's the domain they are advertising through their signature campaign.
Their support doesn't seem to have much information about the domains and that's very bad.

There is no official website lising mirrors of betpanda.


I contacted the support to ask whether betpanda.partners is legit or not. That's the domain the participants of their campaign have in their signature and it should be official. I did that just to see how helpful their support is when they are asked about the mirrors.




As you see in the above image, the support was not helpful at all.
I contacted the support again after a few minutes and this time, I was answered by another person.



The support told me betpanda.partners is not official.

There is no tool for verifying the mirrors and the support don't have information about the mirrors.
How people should know whether a domain is official or it has been created by scammers?

I don’t see any mirror link page on Betpanda website so there’s no official website for this. Some casino intentionally suggests their mirror link only for specific country.

The best way to confirm if the mirror link is legit or is through casino live support. Betpanda support is always active and can give confirmation answer with just a few minutes.

Update:
DT 1
     1. 35: theymos (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (55) 13831 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     2. 30747: Vod (Trust: +29 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (5) 2378 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     3. 33156: vapourminer (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 4454 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     4. 64507: philipma1957 (Trust: +32 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (16) 10098 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     5. 65636: babo (Trust: +15 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (5) 4452 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     6. 78147: Cyrus (Trust: +23 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (18) 2417 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     7. 84866: ibminer (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 2465 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     8. 85033: d5000 (Trust:  neutral) (DT1! (2) 9037 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     9. 97582: joker_josue (Trust: +8 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (5) 5960 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    10. 113670: Mitchell (Trust: +48 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (23) 1628 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    11. 120837: vizique (Trust: +38 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 648 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    12. 123824: albon (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 1725 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    13. 131333: wwzsocki (Trust: +14 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (1) 1519 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    14. 137185: jeremypwr (Trust: +57 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (16) 6138 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    15. 140582: gbianchi (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 2347 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    16. 140584: EFS (Trust: +8 / =1 / -1) (DT1! (7) 1894 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    17. 153634: dbshck (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 625 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    18. 158444: hybridsole (Trust: +19 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 392 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    19. 164749: stompix (Trust:  neutral) (DT1! (10) 6353 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    20. 164822: hilariousandco (Trust: +28 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (32) 1852 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    21. 170072: arulbero (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 1422 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    22. 189967: buckrogers (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (8) 195 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    23. 204821: Buchi-88 (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 2202 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    24. 252510: JayJuanGee (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (16) 12688 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    25. 257071: NeuroticFish (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 5970 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    26. 290195: achow101 (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (12) 6535 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    27. 300014: DaveF (Trust: +33 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (17) 6531 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    28. 314792: examplens (Trust: +8 / =5 / -0) (DT1! (26) 3286 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    29. 317618: nutildah (Trust: +22 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (28) 9369 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    30. 346731: minerjones (Trust: +141 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (19) 3166 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    31. 350580: irfan_pak10 (Trust: +16 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (2) 700 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    32. 355846: yahoo62278 (Trust: +39 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (23) 4132 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    33. 364070: bitbollo (Trust: +18 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 3513 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    34. 369212: zazarb (Trust: +34 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 548 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    35. 379147: pooya87 (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 11110 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    36. 379487: LFC_Bitcoin (Trust: +29 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (18) 11280 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    37. 395806: o_solo_miner (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 525 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    38. 405482: Real-Duke (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 2374 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    39. 407174: klarki (Trust: +4 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (3) 4214 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    40. 487418: The Sceptical Chymist (Trust: +33 / =3 / -0) (DT1! (25) 6205 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    41. 521899: SFR10 (Trust: +20 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 2935 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    42. 557798: TryNinja (Trust: +14 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (9) 8957 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    43. 754818: holydarkness (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (14) 1332 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    44. 805820: Lafu (Trust: +17 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (11) 3780 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    45. 811213: polymerbit (Trust: +17 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 1003 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    46. 830967: tweetious (Trust: +34 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 446 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    47. 889300: giammangiato (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1466 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    48. 901859: buwaytress (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 3581 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    49. 914465: crwth (Trust: +4 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (1) 1110 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    50. 932931: Ale88 (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 3304 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    51. 949248: Kryptowerk (Trust: +52 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 1247 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    52. 950662: julerz12 (Trust: +13 / =6 / -0) (DT1! (3) 1078 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    53. 995810: hosemary (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 6505 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    54. 1000199: krogothmanhattan (Trust: +101 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (20) 4074 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    55. 1016855: JollyGood (Trust: +22 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (16) 1820 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    56. 1045971: igebotz (Trust: +18 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (9) 2150 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    57. 1052091: CryptopreneurBrainboss (Trust: +21 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (13) 5125 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    58. 1059082: hugeblack (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (8) 4302 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    59. 1067333: El duderino_ (Trust: +27 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (10) 14955 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    60. 1097370: KTChampions (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 2148 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    61. 1099980: Trofo (Trust: +29 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 3117 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    62. 1179651: sheenshane (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 1168 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    63. 1269497: Bitcoin_Arena (Trust: +2 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (7) 1989 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    64. 1285797: GazetaBitcoin (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (17) 9041 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    65. 1291828: TheBeardedBaby (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (15) 3335 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    66. 1311641: tvplus006 (Trust: +13 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (12) 2400 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    67. 1424178: mole0815 (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 3142 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    68. 1554927: bitmover (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 7206 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    69. 1582324: DdmrDdmr (Trust: +10 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (19) 11233 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    70. 1668017: anonymousminer (Trust: +41 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 1363 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    71. 1724800: Lakai01 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 3688 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    72. 1827294: Husna QA (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 3201 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    73. 1852120: fillippone (Trust: +12 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (22) 19586 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    74. 1862043: cryptofrka (Trust: +17 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 2270 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    75. 1878246: abhiseshakana (Trust: +2 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (1) 2440 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    76. 1980983: The Cryptovator (Trust: +22 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (20) 2450 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    77. 2003859: DireWolfM14 (Trust: +17 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (20) 5221 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    78. 2015418: notblox1 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 1489 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    79. 2344286: Little Mouse (Trust: +43 / =1 / -1) (DT1! (10) 3293 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    80. 2363935: YOSHIE (Trust: +10 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (17) 1879 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    81. 2477002: inspace (Trust: +5 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (1) 1070 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    82. 2497429: jokers10 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 3790 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    83. 2519096: Awaklara (Trust: +2 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (5) 815 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    84. 2652924: geophphreigh (Trust: +33 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 1103 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    85. 2654005: zasad@ (Trust: +3 / =3 / -0) (DT1! (8) 5359 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    86. 2658890: Rikafip (Trust: +14 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (22) 7507 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    87. 2709122: Etranger (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 1766 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    88. 2739424: NotATether (Trust: +8 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (9) 9179 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    89. 2739454: Stalker22 (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (8) 1533 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    90. 2775483: BlackHatCoiner (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 9204 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    91. 2796662: Lillominato89 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1196 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    92. 3442614: YodasRedRocket (Trust: +31 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 642 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    93. 3486361: PowerGlove (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 6643 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    94. 3540187: apogio (Trust: +6 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (3) 2296 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)

DT 2
     1. 3: satoshi (Trust: +46 / =0 / -0) (8182 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     2. 4: sirius (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (828 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     3. 203: HostFat (Trust: +1 / =0 / -1) (300 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     4. 2252: laanwj (Trust:  neutral) (44 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     5. 2676: casascius (Trust: +6 / =0 / -1) (141 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     6. 2759: midnightmagic (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (27 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     7. 2786: Pieter Wuille (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (198 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     8. 3318: Luke-Jr (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (196 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
     9. 3420: dooglus (Trust: +12 / =0 / -0) (334 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    10. 4171: Raize (Trust:  neutral) (24 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    11. 4528: Matt Corallo (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (15 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    12. 6347: Maged (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (17 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    13. 10354: JJG (Trust:  neutral) (10 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    14. 11275: wariner (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (4 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    15. 11425: gmaxwell (Trust: +11 / =0 / -1) (9258 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    16. 11671: Kluge (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (17 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    17. 13813: smooth (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (203 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    18. 14001: MiningBuddy (Trust:  neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)
    19. 14210: simpic (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (319 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    20. 18312: phantastisch (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (363 Merit earned) (Custom Trust list) (BPIP)

This is really a problem especially people who asked that question didn't get the exact answer that they like to hear from their support. Maybe they need to improve that area and make sure that they give all the information's what people want to know.

Also @mitchr4 already provide their mirror link betpandamirrors.com and betpanda.partners is officially listed there.



Yes, grab the link posted by @mitchr4

I agree with you that this needs to be done, as some users will get annoyed every time they have to log in when exiting the web. Even though it's for security, I don't think this system is as easy to abuse as you say.

Especially if every login we have to do periodic verification such as entering OTP and so on. I also have several accounts that are always automatically logged in on the web and it has never been a problem. I think this could be something to consider for casinos to implement.

Weekly update (2025-12-26_Fri_05.18h)


theymos' raw data (format: time    amount    msg    user_from    user_to)
Sample
Full list^* (54 MB) (not limited to 120 days, 2930 Merit transactions added since my previous update).

theymos' data (human readable format, including usernames and post titles)
Sample
On Fri 26 Dec 2025 03:36:05 AM CET, bitmover (history) sent 1 Merit to joker_josue (history) for Re: Mempool Observer Topic.
On Fri 26 Dec 2025 03:26:55 AM CET, Vispilio (history) sent 3 Merit to Mustang Shelby (history) for Market değeri en yüksek 8 emtia/şirket .
On Fri 26 Dec 2025 03:25:51 AM CET, igehhh (history) sent 1 Merit to un_rank (history) for Re: Rainbet.com 🦁 Fantasy Premier League ⚽ Prize $15,000!.
On Fri 26 Dec 2025 03:21:45 AM CET, #BitcoinCore (history) sent 1 Merit to sabotag3x (history) for Vulnerabilidade na Trust Wallet.
On Fri 26 Dec 2025 02:20:03 AM CET, Donneski (history) sent 6 Merit to Zoomic (history) for my collection of Bitcointalk factoids..
.......
.......
.......
On Wed 24 Jan 2018 11:28:54 PM CET, AdolfinWolf (history) sent 1 Merit to Lutpin (history) for Re: What is the function of the "Merit" score?.
On Wed 24 Jan 2018 11:27:54 PM CET, Dahman El_Harrachi (history) sent 1 Merit to theymos (history) for Re: Forum ranks/positions/badges (What do those shiny coins under my name mean?).
On Wed 24 Jan 2018 11:27:22 PM CET, Tyrantt (history) sent 5 Merit to AdolfinWolf (history) for What is the function of the "Merit" score?.
On Wed 24 Jan 2018 11:27:13 PM CET, Last of the V8s (history) sent 2 Merit to Rosewater Foundation (history) for Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion.
On Wed 24 Jan 2018 11:12:21 PM CET, theymos (history) sent 1 Merit to AdolfinWolf (history) for What is the function of the "Merit" score?.
Full list (567 MB)

Usernames to go with theymos' data
Sample
0: deMerit (Bitcoin Forum) (history) earned: 0 Merit.
3: satoshi (history) earned: 8182 Merit.
4: sirius (history) earned: 828 Merit.
10: Xunie (history) earned: 1 Merit.
11: madhatter (history) earned: 5 Merit.
.......
.......
.......
3740293: Eze BTC (history) earned: 1 Merit.
3740425: untruth997 (history) earned: 2 Merit.
3740690: AML Bot (history) earned: 7 Merit.
3741008: NINI2501 (history) earned: 2 Merit.
3741133: orenz0 (history) earned: 3 Merit.
Full list^* (10 MB)

Usernames machine readable
Sample
Full list (2 MB)

UserIDs, sent Merit and earned Merit machine readable
Sample
Full list (1 MB)

Total number of users who received 1 or more Merit: 50773
Sample
Full list (5 MB)

Total number of users who gave away 1 or more sMerit: 26481
Sample
Full list (3 MB)

Merit per day of the week
Monday 318392 (14.36%)
Tuesday 316525 (14.27%)
Wednesday 317731 (14.33%)
Thursday 338434 (15.26%)
Friday 336273 (15.16%)
Saturday 293675 (13.24%)
Sunday 296053 (13.35%)
Total: 2217083

---

^* This file will be overwritten by newer versions

I don't know which references you used for your website development but if you have yet known about these sites and tools, I believe they're very helpful for your holdpath website development.

https://hodl.camp/
https://bitcoindata.science/withdrawal-strategy
[ANN] JJG Sustainable Bitcoin Withdrawal Strategy

I can not visit your website with Tor, it is a thing you need to change for your website.

Wow!!!  I am having trouble figuring out if you learned your lesson or not.  I am getting the sense that you have not learned your lesson since you are trying to suggest and even explain the ups and downs of what you had ended up doing as if there was some benefit in it, even if we might conjecture that there may well could have had been unrealized potential benefit.

Part of the problem continues to be desires that you (and potentially others) have to gamble with one of the best if not best of assets (opportunities) that is available to normies who are fortunate enough to have discretionary funds. A large number of folks struggle to generate discretionary funds.   I would think that the greatness of bitcoin should motivate folks to accumulate it through certain kinds of means related to buying only so that they can be sure to be ongoingly building up its quantity rather than taking chances in regards to whether or not they are building up its quantity, which especially comes whenever selling is included into the bitcoin accumulation practices.

By the way, did you ever attempt to figure out what your level of bitcoin would have had been if you stayed focused on ONLY buying bitcoin as soon as you figured out that bitcoin was something to accumulate.  I understand that you are proclaiming that you were not quite unlost around the time of your forum registration in August 2023, yet you seemed to indicate that at some point, you began to recognize the value of accumulating bitcoin - yet I am still getting the sense that you are lost in regards to the ways that you are going about bitcoin accumulation, whether trading and maybe you would still go back to shitcoins if you were to conclude that some shitcoin might come available in which you perceive that putting value into that shitcoin (rather than staying focused on directly accumulating bitcoin) might end up allowing you to accumulate more bitcoin than a direct buying of bitcoin approach.

It is like you are ongoingly choosing to miss the downside potential of fucking around with trading and/or shitcoins, and perhaps you would get bored if you were to force ur lil selfie to stay focused on ongoing buying of bitcoin only.  It is like you are too smart (or think that you are too smart) for your own good... and I doubt that it really pans out to continue to fuck around trying to time tops and bottoms for the first several years (perhaps 4 or more) that guys are in bitcoin... and there are guys who have been in bitcoin for years and years and years, and they continue to have fun staying poor and continue to be involved in buying and/or selling of bitcoin because they continue to fail/refuse to spend a whole solid 4-ish years accumulating bitcoin through buying only.

Sure, it is possible that I might not be correct in regards to a need for newbies, no coiners, low coiners and guys who perceive themselves as still needing more coin to ongoingly focus on accumulating their bitcoin through buying only.. and that selling is not a good practice for guys who need to (or want to) accumulate more bitcoin.

Of course, you can do what you want, yet if you are posting about it and trying to suggest that you are engaged in some kind of a good practice or even to suggest that there might be some replicability in the ways that you are working towards building your bitcoin stash, then surely you are going to end up getting push back from guys like me.


What do you mean? You said that this year you were going to try to accumulate as much bitcoin as you can.

You also said that you did the same thing at the beginning of 2025.

Accordingly, I was just asking if you had transitioned into a buying only approach to accumulating bitcoin, yet it seems that you have not.

I don't see what it is that I missed about November and December?  I am suggesting that guys who do not have enough coins should just be ongoingly accumulating bitcoin through buying, and so there tends to be some value in buying as the the BTC price goes down, especially if the BTC price stops going down - yet there is no real way to know if the BTC price is going to stop going down.. and none of those price matters should matters to guys who are in their early bitcoin accumulation phases.

Surely guys like me proclaim to have already gone through most of our bitcoin accumulation stages, so I have not really been claiming to be in my accumulation phase since 2014 - yet at the same time, I continued to inject new value into bitcoin in 2015 and even into 2016 - even though perhaps by the time that we got to 2017, I did not have as many instances in which I was injecting new value into bitcoin - which could be a sign that I had both considered myself mostly through my bitcoin accumulation phase and that my practices also mostly reflected such status.. Yet at the same time, I have had some bouts in which I had injected some new value into bitcoin, including the 2022 price drop, especially when I was coming close to running out of money (that was already in my bitcoin investing system) in about mid 2022 when the BTC price dropped down to about $19k and it had a spike down to $17.5k-ish but I did not buy at that particular spike down because I was regrouping.. and so  from mid 2022 to about late 2022 (when BTC prices finally reached their lowest of lows at $15,479 in November), I had injected some new value into bitcoin during that time.


Ok.  Perhaps you are making some progress to transition yourself from a trading mindset into an investing mindset.


O.k. Fair enough.


I imagine that many guys come into bitcoin without necessarily a straight DCA approach in which they have invested steady for the whole time, since if you had already been in bitcoin, then you might have had some points that you put more value in and then maybe you have your income and then you draw from your income and then maybe you might have some other funds that you consider whether or not to add to your bitcoin or alternatively to just keep those other funds where they are at... so the beginning journey in regards to starting to focus on buying only might take time to really get into the groove, to the extent that you are not prone to relapsing.

Sometimes you can just look at a standard DCA approach in order to attempt to compare where you are at relative to the standard DCA approach.

So for example, a person who might have had started investing in bitcoin around July 1, 2024 at a steady rate of $100 per week would have had invested about $8k up until now and would have had accumulated about 0.091 BTC, which is about break-even right now.. so yeah, sometimes if we make mistakes, then our own holdings might have slightly worse measures as compared with a standard and steady rate of bitcoin buying... yet I still imagine that if many guys attempt to get on track fairly early in their bitcoin journey then by 4 years, their average cost per BTC would be right around the 200-WMA and then surely by 6 or 8 years, then the average cost per BTC should be quite a bit lower than the 200-WMA.. perhaps even 50% of the 200WMA.. We cannot exactly know, and surely guys have irregularities in the amount of money they have coming available that can be put into bitcoin and if they are young or in their earlier years where they can get job (income) promotions, then they might end up being able to increase the amounts that they are able to put into bitcoin with the passage of time.. so even a guy who starts at $100 per week, he might end up progressing to quite a bit higher amounts, especially if he had simultaneously strengthened his cashflow management systems/practices along the way, too.

Unless a guy is really able to front load his bitcoin investment within his first whole cycle of investing, I expect that many guys will have to stay in accumulation mode for longer than a whole cycle and two cycles would not be unusual, even guys who are ready, willing and able to invest fairly aggressively at something close to 25% of their income.


Yep... some times we say too much, and yeah there had been some points that I had suggested to having at least 0.63 BTC... so there could be questions regarding whether those kinds of admission could end up coming back to bite us.

It seems that sometimes if we are trying to retain some meaning in our discussions, we might have to throw out some numbers and sometimes even suggest that we have some personal experiences around the topics that we discuss - even if sometimes we also might attempt to extrapolate too.

So sometimes a guy with 0.63 BTC might extrapolate 10x (such as 6.3 BTC) or some other number in order to relate with some of the ideas being discussed (and the extent to which we might strive to make our numbers somewhat tangible and/or relatable).


Remember when mindrust proclaimed that he had achieved 10 BTC, and the price would have had been around $5,500 at that time, yet he ended up saying that he had sold them all within less than 24 hours of his declaration, which his sale would have had been around $4,500.

It is hard for guys to hang onto bitcoin, even when he proclaims to be trying to do so.

So gosh. Maybe 10 BTC at $4,500 or $5,500 is not much less than 1.26 BTC in these here times.

Part of the reason that specific numbers are important relate to being able to potentially talk about them in terms of if they might be enough or more than enough.

I would argue that right now, 1.26 BTC would sustainably support an annual income of $7,165, which would ONLY be $600 per month, which is not really enough to live off of, even though it could supplement other income.. so yeah, I think that many of us would like to be able to get to and/or to maintain some kind of a status to have sustainable income from our investments, whether it is bitcoin alone or bitcoin along with some other sources of income.

So if we can get our bitcoin stash up to a high enough amount or even to exceed the targeted amount that we would like to be able sustainably withdraw from it, then there may well be some sense of accomplishment in regards to the pay off of our having had spent time accumulating bitcoin and/or perhaps maintaining it while we were waiting for the amount to be enough to be sustainably withdrawn.. .. and yeah, I hate to impose my values on others (even though I don't) - even though there are guys who seem to not be able to get out of the mindset of either transitioning their bitcoin into another asset and/or consuming it.. which seem to be inferior approaches in regards to what to do with our playing with our bitcoin, from my point of view.


Even though, sure, it could be that the BTC price is in the ballpark of $900k in 6 years, yet at the same time, I somewhat hate to be a party poop, since I think that there is some justification in an expectation of diminishing returns.

Wasabi support sending and there is a PR for receiving which works well but it contradicts the main goal that Wasabi is pursuing which is becoming more resilient by avoiding the need for central servers or indexers.

The main difference between mixers is that they can deliver you coins with very low AML score, some of them claim to take funds from exchanges and other licensed services and deliver uncommitted coins to their customers.

Regarding coinjoin, I can't give much opinion on its functioning, as I don't know much about its technical details, just the basics kind of above... but I believe it's a good option too.

Yeah, it's important to avoid receiving coins at the same address, despite being a basic thing, it is a practice highly encouraged by modern wallets.

There are also silent payments that some wallets like Cake have the option to receive at SP addresses, they are similar to Monero's stealth addresses. I can't wait for this feature to be made available in Bitcoin Core, Electrum, Wasabi, etc. (especially the receiving function).

I can now grab what sustainable withdrawal is and can imagine how an investor will keep there investment on ground level if they keep withdrawing based on how i viewed sustainable withdrawal before now. Steady 4+ stacking of Bitcoin at a certain rate can be able to get someones investment to sustainable withdrawal status which seems to be one of the advantages of long-term investment.

This brings back what JJG had said earlier, I quote
"I doubt that just calling something sustainable makes it sustainable,
 especially if the principle is being depleted, yet sure,
guys can do what they want, but if they call it sustainable
and they are depleting their principle, then I would suggest that
they don't really understand the "sustainable" idea."

How I viewed sustainable withdrawal before now was seen to be sustainable when it's not really sustainable.
However, it's no longer about principle depletion but about leaving your Bitcoin investment on ground level (without growth) which not very far from gambling.

I don't think these are the parameters on which to base such a judgment.
For example, Ethereum is at #2, even though it never touched that level again after the ATH in 2021. Probably a pure loss for many holders. Here, holders even get a profit through staking, although I'm not sure how real the profit is, considering the low and on-hold value of ETH.
But, we probably shouldn't derail the Splash.tf thread with such discussion.

♻️ Target block - 930147 ♻️


This round’s prize goes to bitmover 🎁 Well done!

🎉 Hallo zusammen! Eine spannende neue Verlosung ist da, und wir freuen uns, euch zur Teilnahme einzuladen!

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🍀 Viel Glück an alle Teilnehmer!

Just an update: this was back when zkSNACKs was funding chain analysis. That coordinator is no longer with us, Wasabi is now just sitting there open-source, allowing you to select any coordinator you want. Also, zkSNACKs was charging you to coinjoin, if memory serves right, while there are coordinators now that charge you near zero, and you end up paying only mining fees and maybe leftover (which is usually something around ~1k sats).

Authorities haven't managed to de-anonymize a WabiSabi coinjoin, unless the user was a whale (> 5 BTC) and did a stupid consolidation.

No, there is zero reasons to use mixers.

In 2023 the Wasabi coinjoin service was provided by a company called zkSNACKs which director board decided to pay for a chain analysis API to prevent coins from using the service. That is objectively true and was announced publicly by zkSNACKs before implementing that meassure.  Working with authorities and survillance is simply not true, a lie. Given Wasabi doesn't know anything about its users nor its users' wallets, it can not share anything with anyone. 

In 2024 zkSNACKs closed its doors and let the Wasabi FOSS project in the hands of independent contributors to maintain it (I am one of those). The coordination servers are run by independent volunteers (currently 6 according to https://liquisabi.com/), in fact all the Wasabi infrastructure is run and maintained by independent contributors. 

Mixers are sucker traps and exit scams. Who in their right mind would give their bitcoins to a mixer hoping to get them back while paying 5% plus a flat fee? If someone asks about coinjoins or mixers, why ignore the best option (coinjoining) and jump directly to a riskier, more expensive, and almost certainly scam option (mixers)?


Coinjoining with Wasabi Wallet IS in practical sense almost free in many many cases and free in most of the cases.

No way. The most used coinjoin implementation is by far Wasabi Wallet, and it doesn't charge any service fee, only network fees to pay miners. Wasabi clients, however, can give dust to the coordinators. According to real-world data extracted from https://liquisabi.com in 2025, 42,488.54 fresh bitcoins have entered Wasabi coinjoins, and the coinjoin coordinators have earned 2.634899 bitcoins. This means that approximately 0.0062% of wallets give up to the coinjoin coordinator on average. In other words, for every BTC you enter in the coinjoin process, 0.000062 BTC is given to the coordinator on average.

Enter into https://liquisabi.com and select the time frame to cover the full 2025 and verify it by yourselves.

At some point I had said that I had more than 0.63 BTC, so as time passes, I might end up not having as many as I used to have, yet more than 0.63 BTC isn't really that bad for someone who has a year or two in bitcoin - even though we tend to assume that longer term guys have more coin, which is not always a correct assumption.

I do like to mix my real and my fictional so there might be some obscurity about the specifics - even though surely prior to 2020, I used to use $1 million (or the ability to withdraw $3,333 per month) as the default entry level fuck you status, even the millionaire in 2020 was not as meaningful as the millionaire in  2010 or the millionaire in 2000 or surely 1990, that was probably when being a millionaire meant something.

I still believe that it was fair to move up entry level fuck you status to $2 million or $6,666 per month in 2020 - even though even that is getting diluted away, even though we still have quite a bit of variance around the world where $6,666 per month does not mean shit in some western locations and especially some of the BIGGER city areas in the western locations, yet there are also places around the world where $6,666 per month can really mean something... for even the majority of the population who might ONLY be making a fraction of that and having to work as well.

Probably around 2020, I also moved away from the use of spot price as a way to valuate wealth, and the use of the 200-WMA seems to allow for a much more stable way of counting on a withdrawal rate that would rely on that, which means that currently to get to a $6,666 monthly income, I assess that a guy would need 14.0676 BTC, so the amount of bitcoin needed keeps coming down and down and down, even though it could well take until around 2040 before 0.63 BTC territories might start to be able to support a $6,666 per month income, which surely we are likely going to need to double entry level fuck you status, perhaps in 2030 and also in 2040. The greatness of the debasement the dollar continues to be a bit of an unknown.. so maybe by 2040.. entry level fuck you status would be based on a presumption of $10 million in wealth, which would mean around a $33k per month income, which seems a bit unwieldily at the moment and as if something may well need to break pretty badly in the next 15-ish years.

My point in using those default fuck you status numbers is not to reflect on myself, yet meant to be a reflection of a kind of normal (not too rich and not too poor) person's entry level (threshold amount) to get out of the rat race and to be able to live somewhat comfortable given the status of not having to work and also the entry-level status of being able to live somewhat comfortably.  I also presume that once the person reaches whatever sustainable withdrawal status, bitcoin coin should be able to allow him to presume giving himself up to a 7% per year raise in terms of the dollar amount.. so one thing is getting started and another thing is keeping it going once it is started.. which presumes having enough BTC to have the threshold status but also perhaps a bit extra as a cushion, too.

By the way, I calculate that the current sustainable withdrawal rate for 0.63 BTC would be about $3,853 per year, which would be about $300 per month (of course with perhaps up to a 7% per year increase in the dollar rate), which is not very much, even in very poor places around the world, even though surely there would be some folks who would be quite happy with $300 per month for the rest of their life with up to a 7% per year increase in the amount... and that is before they decide to deplete the principle.  I know that some folks don't necessarily agree with whether the rate that I have figured out is sustainable, yet I surely think that my position on the matter is defendable... and I think that it is likely to work (until and unless the 200-WMA discontinues going up greater than 10% per year, which I think it is going to take a while for it to stop growing at least at 10% or more per year.

What did I miss here?
XMR holders have lost money while keeping Monero?! Monero, which had 120%-150% YTD in 2025. Not bad at all for one of the major altcoins.

I guess "who's holding Monero" is the rhetorical question.
Monero is still being mined. What you describe could perhaps be attributed to the fact that miners sometimes sell xmr to cover costs, which are related to fiat

Yep.  If guys have other funds in various forms, then he has options, and yeah, he might have some social options too.. that he might build over the years, so he knows that he might be able to get funds from other people, up to a certain point.. so then he might have to weigh from which one to spend first.. and the fewer options that he has, then he might end up having to resort to his bitcoin.. which he is attempting to avoid.,. and surely even when the various back up funds are getting close to being exhausted, he might be able to finds some less preferable and inconvenient ways to increase his income and/or cut some of his expenses. .so sometimes even having certain talents or a certain set of connections might help to generate some temporary income or an ability to cut some expenses based on people who are known or social relations that are in place.


Surely keeping some money for optional consumption can serve a lot of purposes, including psychological well-being, so for example, there might be some opportunity to go on a weekend trip, and the trip might cost $200, and maybe there are funds that are being held for flexible reasons.. and choices may well have to be made, since the $200 might be well spent on such consumption, and there could be lifetime regrets in having had missed the opportunity when it was available...

and like you suggest Futurexxx, the nature of discretionary spending might have a lot of subjective element involved in terms of how high of a priority to give such extra optional spending, in which some guys might consider the spending to be completely wasteful and other guys might decide that they want to have the option to spend money on the thing that they want and to control and/or balance their choices in ways that they personally prioritize and no one else might agree with certain parts of their choices... and even if guys have some of these kinds of spending pieces that seem completely irrational, they also might know that they also have put in place certain limits for themselves in regards to how much of their income they are going to allow themselves to spend on such seemingly whimsical spending matters.

By the way, if we know that we have desires to be whimsical with our money, we might still allow ourselves to partake in such whimsicalities, while at the same time trying to put some kind of a strict limitation on the amount that we dedicate for such, so maybe we tell ourselves that no more than 10% of our discretionary money can be used for our whimsical spending.. so we still have those freedoms to be whimsical, but we also have put systems in place (that are an amount that we specifically chose for ourselves) to control how much we partake in such whimsicalities an potentially limit the amount of damage that such whimsical behaviors will end up doing to our investment systems and practices that we have decided to put in place and to prioritize for what we believe to be for our own good and for our own future self.


Well.  If we have a variety of investments, we likely need to figure out priorities, and surely some investments are more volatile and some are more liquid than others.  So sometimes we might need to reallocate some of our other investments so that we are not forced to sell some (or all) of our bitcoin merely because it happens to be the most liquid asset that we happen to have available... so surely if we prioritize our bitcoin investment, we may well have to take various preventative measures in terms of other assets (investments) that we hold, and surely we might realize that certain of our investments are not very liquid, yet we value those assets less than our bitcoin investment, so we may well have to proactively take measures to liquidate some of our illiquid assets (and either put them in bitcoin or put them in some other liquid kind of a holdings) so that we do not end up having to touch our bitcoin when we would have had preferred to take it from the less liquid asset first...

So for example, let's say that we hold an index fund, and that index fund is mostly available Monday through Friday during normal business days, and we also know that it would take around 2 weeks before we could sell and convert such asset to dollars or whatever is our local currency.  We might know that our bitcoin can be available within 1 calendar day or perhaps even faster than that... so we might realize that we need to act in advance.  We also might own some property or even share ownership in property or in a business, and we know that it would take several months to liquidate that value... so we might need to take that into account too in regards what we are holding and what proportion of value we are holding in various assets.  A few years ago, I had decided to begin to withdraw from an index fund because I wanted it to generate cash (or an cash income) for me on a monthly basis, so then having that extra cash coming in from that index fund, I have been given an additional cushion of money that causes me to have less worry about selling any of my bitcoin and even potentially to use some or that money to buy more bitcoin from time to time.. even though I consider myself to not be accumulating bitcoin as I had been doing more than 10-ish years ago...so sometimes we can take actions in regards to some of the other investments assets that we have in order to reinforce our prioritization of holding and maintaining and perhaps even building our bitcoin holdings.


Maybe we are distracting people with the idea of emergency fund.

Fuck emergency funds for whatever random purpose.. it does not matter..

We are specifically talking about protecting our bitcoin investment, and so the extent that you keep other emergency funds and blah blah blah.. The main context that we are talking about is making sure that we are able to both build up our bitcoin investment and to minimize the chances that we might have to tap into our bitcoin at a time that is not of our choosing... so if we end up screwing things up and then we have to tap into our bitcoin, then in some sense we have failed.

Sure, if an Emergency is big enough then we may well have no choice but to tap into our bitcoin to save our life or perhaps the life of some other person(s) in which we feel some financial obligation to save.


You have already screwed up in your own prior failure/refusal to sufficiently protect your bitcoin, and so now you want to tell us that we need to establish an emergency fund first, merely because you fucked up.  You are surely not a good role model on either the bitcoin investment or the cashflow management topic..


Hopefully, you can learn for yourself and not end up screwing up in the opposite direction because you end up over compensating for your prior screw up.


There is nothing wrong with allocating more to bitcoin, yet there still needs to be some kind of funds to cover various cashflow situations that might come up that relate to loss of income and/or increases in expenses.. and so each of us have to figure out how to make such balances, without putting ourselves into a place that we have to tap into our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.

Many times normal people might come to bitcoin, and they might already have a practice in place that they have 2-6 weeks of various back up funds available for irregularities that might occur in regards to their income and/or their expenses.  Many folks have a certain level of pride in which they don't want to put themselves into a position in which they have to ask others for a bailout.. so they have systems in place to bail themselves out from any shortages in cash that they might end up experiencing.

So if a person comes to bitcoin and they already have some back up funds in place, then they are off to a good start, yet if people come to bitcoin and they do not hae those systems and/or practices in place, then they likely have to figure out how to get into better cashflow management practices... and surely with something like bitcoin, p;art of the eason that we have to build greater back up funds is because bitcoin tends to be very volatile and very liquid, so we have to have systems in place where we are not tempted to touch our bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.. perhaps even greater than 10 years would be our goal since less than 10years would ONLY apply to folks who have health and/or age reasons for not being able to commit to longer periods such as greater than 10 years.


Hopefully you can get some kind of a reasonable balance without overreacting or overcompensating and/or failing/refusing to learn the right kind of a lesson. It can take a long time to build a bitcoin investment and also to strengthen existing cashflow management systems/practices - including that there are some special peculiarities in regards to protecting our bitcoin  - even though surely in a worse case situation, we may well not have any choice but to tap into our bitcoin and/or potentially to completely use our bitcoin to respond to such emergency situation, yet at the same time, there tends to be quite a bit of high importance to try to not put ourselves into any emergency situation due to our own sloppiness and/or lack of preparedness.. and yeah, it can take a while and even sometimes we might have to do work or engage in some kinds of employment that we would prefer not to do.. but we are at the same time trying to make sure that we are both investing into bitcoin from our discretionary income and also that we are making sure that we are building and/or maintaining strong cashflow management systems/practices. 

Most times no one is going to be available to hold our hand and/or to make sure that we are allocating correctly into each of the categories, so hopefully we can figure out ways to learn and to continue to build at the same time so that we are not faced with situations where we have to start over.


I use the term overaccumulation to describe a situation in which a person has accumulated enough or more than enough bitcoin, so then options open up in terms of being able to start to sustainably withdraw based on price and/or based on time.

For example, in the beginning of 2016, a person had a $30k per year income and over the past 10 years he had been accumulating bitcoin at $100 per week, and his income had gone up to $50k now.  He would like to quit his job and start to live off of his bitcoin, yet he does not want to quit his job until he is sure that he can withdraw at $80k per year from his bitcoin.

He looks at his bitcoin and he sees that over the past 10-ish years, he had invested about $52k, and he had accumulated 15.26 BTC.  He also looks at the current amount of BTC that he would need to start to withdraw at $80k per year, and he sees that it is 14.0757, so he sees that he has enough BTC to start his $80k per year withdrawal rate and to meet the minimum threshold level to be able to start to withdraw at his target of $80k per year, and he sees that he also has nearly 1.1 BTC extra.. so he feels even more comfortable that he more than meets the minimal level of BTC for his desire start to the process of withdrawing at $80k per year and he has a bit of an overaccumulation cushion of nearly 1.1 BTC so that he can continue to monitor his withdrawal rate once he gets started and to continue to make sure that he does not deplete the dollar value of his current BTC holdings faster than his holdings would be growing in value in spite of his plan to start to withdraw $6,666 per month and at the same time, he considers that it is going to be quite likely that he is going to be able to increase his dollar withdrawal rate by 7% each subsequent year, so in year 2, he will withdraw $85.6k, year 3 he will withdraw $91.6k, year 4 he will withdraw $98k - etc etc etc.. and he will continue to monitor to make sure that his bitcoin is growing in its dollar value faster than the rate that he is withdrawing from his holdings.

Each of us is responsible to figure out how many bitcoin we need, and if we have determined that we have reached overaccumulation status, we should put systems in place that don't cause us to get knocked out of overaccumualtion status, once we are in it.

If we buy MSTR and/or its derivative products, we have bought various paper claims and we have helped MSTR to acquire more bitcoin, and we have also exposed ourselves to some of their execution risk that may or may not end up helping us to profit directly, since surely there could well be times (and there have been) that MSTR and/or its derivative products have performed better than bitcoin (and even better than cash), and sure there could be some governments, institutions and/or even individuals with certain kinds of accounts (such as retirement) that are ONLY authorized to buy third party products rather than guying bitcoin directly, so they might choose to own MSTR and/or its derivative products.  As individuals we can directly own bitcoin, and even some governments and/or institutions might be able to figure out ways to directly own bitcoin... so  maybe if we choose to own both, then we have to figure out how much we might be ready, willing and/or able to hold of each of those.  With any potentially risky item or trading or shitcoin, I tend to start out with the idea of no more than 10% of the size of our bitcoin should be allowed to be invested in such potentially risky item, and I would consider MSTR and/or its derivative products to fit in such category, and sure of course, guys are free to come to their own calculations. 

I recall so many instances in 2017 in which guys were so excited about shitcoins that they either did not own any bitcoin, or they had the reverse allocation, so they would have 90% of their holdings in various shitcoins and 10% in bitcoin.. which in retrospect is seen as truly retarded, and I surely tried to tell them that they were being retarded at the time, yet it can frequently be difficult to help people to both recognize and to control their inclinations towards wanting to speed up the process of getting rich, so they end up diluting their focus on bitcoin, losing their way and/or even denying that bitcoin is the prize... I remember so much about bitcoin as grandpa coin.. hahahahaha.. and those guys who failed/refused to sufficiently/adequately maintain a decent bitcoin holding size ended up really losing their opportunities to build meaningful wealth such as the guys who had either held bitcoin through 2017 and thereafter and/or the guys who continued to stack bitcoin during those times and perhaps being able to get to a point of having enough or more than enough bitcoin.. And surely even a relatively small budget of consistent buying of bitcoin that started in 2017 may well could have reached overaccumulation status by now and perhaps even earlier.

So for example even a guy who might have had been earning around $30k per year in early 2017, he might have had invested $100 per week (which is about 17% of his income in bitcoin), and by now he would have had invested around $47k (1.5x of his annual income), and he would have had accumulated around 5.41 BTC, which largely right now would be enough bitcoin to get him started with sustainable withdrawal at $30k per year.  Sure, he could continue to accumulate bitcoin and perhaps in a year or two, his sustainable withdrawal rate from an ongoing $100 per week investment into bitcoin may well put him at a withdrawal rate that is close to double the current $30k per year rate.  Guys can measure these matters and figure out ways to really empower themselves from directly owning and building up their bitcoin, even though it could still well take a decently long time to really stay focused on ongoing bitcoin accumulation through buying and even not overdoing it and/or putting your bitcoin at risk by fucking around with otherwise risky side distractions whether MSTR (its derivative products) or even other various paper bitcoin products that are available (such as spot bitcoin ETFs and/or other of those kinds of products).


Yep.  A lot has changed in the last year with Strategy and/or its various products, and surely it was fairly recently (maybe various points in early 2025) that MSTR was on the top of the world and so many guys were really excited to be in MSTR and even those who did not have MSTR were regretting not having had been in MSTR.. and even in this thread we had guys very excited and even lecturing guys for their not being in MSTR..  as if owning MSTR was such an "obvious" no brainer play.  Guys who held onto their MSTR or even kept buying MSTR as it kept plummeting ended up serving as exit liquidity for MSTR's ability to get more bitcoin for itself, since the Bitcoin that MSTR holds is largely unencumbered, while shareholders ended up paying the price and even thinking that Saylor et al were acting in their best interests... yet I still doubt that Saylor and/or MSTR agents ended up violating any rules (I don't claim to be an expert in terms of if there might be ways for them to be prosecuted.. Ok.. now I am starting to sound like the sceptical chymist)..  He's gotta be coming in here pretty soon and telling us all "I told you so," no?  Surely certain aspects of his thesis seem to be playing out.. .and even the MSTR situation seems to be evolving in ways that they likely are acting worse than what guys had expected them to act in terms of dilution of shares and the kinds of things that centralized entities will do, especially when they get desperate and seem to be spiraling..

Thank you everyone for your response. Thanks Bitmover for your patience in helping me understand how to use the tool. I believe I can handle it myself now. Locking the thread.

This month 114 users were eligible.

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And that's it, 2025 is over. It's time for the results.

But first, let's summarize the performance of altcoins, which we can definitely call shitcoins.
Only a few shitcoins manage to outperform BTC. The big winners are Monero and gold.
Here is the bloodbath :

Alts	Evol 2025	Alts	Evol 2025
Monero (XMR)	95,72	CHEQD Network (CHEQ)	-81,66
Tether Gold (XAUT)	60,17	Aptos (APT)	-82,02
PAX Gold (PAXG)	59,38	The Sandbox (SAND)	-82,37
BNB (BNB)	21,78	DOG•GO•TO•THE•MOON (Runes) (DOG)	-82,48
Grin (GRIN)	21,52	Saros (SAROS)	-82,87
EURC (EURC)	13,48	WAX (WAXP)	-83,20
Hyperliquid (HYPE)	7,93	Pyth Network (PYTH)	-83,38
Jupiter Perpetuals Liquidity Provider Token (JLP)	2,26	SPACE ID (ID)	-83,74
Tether (USDT)	-0,12	Raydium (RAY)	-83,93
DAI (DAI)	-0,16	Zksync (ZK)	-83,95
BCGame Coin (BC)	-0,73	THORChain (RUNE)	-83,96
Ethereum (ETH)	-10,35	dogwifhat (WIF)	-84,76
Bitcoin (BTC)	-12,52	Wojak (WOJAK)	-85,13
Peercoin (PPC)	-26,70	Hana (HANA)	-86,24
Litecoin (LTC)	-38,17	WOO (WOO)	-86,30
Solana (SOL)	-41,05	Kekius Maximus (KEKIUS)	-87,09
XRP (XRP)	-43,21	Wormhole (W)	-87,26
MX (MX)	-45,58	Axie Infinity (AXS)	-87,46
Chainlink (LINK)	-47,00	dYdX (DYDX)	-87,49
Bitget Token (BGB)	-47,67	Brett (BRETT)	-89,20
Pendle (PENDLE)	-50,66	Eigenlayer (EIGEN)	-89,34
Aave (AAVE)	-52,99	NEURALAI (NEURAL)	-89,35
SPX6900 (SPX)	-53,24	ResearchCoin (RSC)	-89,45
Bitget Wallet Token (BWB)	-55,67	Sonic (S)	-90,53
Chainflip (FLIP)	-63,09	Goatseus Maximus (GOAT)	-90,64
XDC Network (XDC)	-63,52	Celestia (TIA)	-90,92
Waves (WAVES)	-63,63	Dogs (DOGS)	-91,40
Tezos (XTZ)	-63,65	ChainGPT (CGPT)	-91,43
GMX (GMX)	-67,85	Vanar Chain (VANRY)	-92,22
Dogecoin (DOGE)	-68,94	Ronin (RON)	-92,67
Avalanche (AVAX)	-69,23	MOG (MOG)	-92,91
Cardano (ADA)	-69,51	OPEN GPU (OGPU)	-93,00
Toncoin (TON)	-69,71	Odos (ODOS)	-93,32
Orca (ORCA)	-70,08	Hamster Kombat (HMSTR)	-93,36
Morpho (MORPHO)	-70,38	Usual (USUAL)	-95,44
Kaspa (KAS)	-70,51	NEM (XEM)	-95,46
Sui (SUI)	-70,59	ParallelAI (PAI)	-95,52
Cosmos Hub (ATOM)	-70,71	Catbal ($CATBAL)	-96,23
Hedera (HBAR)	-70,72	Zero1 Labs (DEAI)	-96,45
NEAR Protocol (NEAR)	-70,74	LinqAI (LNQ)	-96,59
LayerZero (ZRO)	-73,43	Aleph Zero (AZERO)	-96,72
Internet Computer (ICP)	-73,75	SuiPad (SUIP)	-96,75
Jupiter (JUP)	-76,09	Hyperlauncher (LAUNCH)	-96,79
FLOKI (FLOKI)	-76,65	Supra (SUPRA)	-96,91
Filecoin (FIL)	-76,83	PAAL AI (PAAL)	-96,99
Hawk Tuah (HAWKTUAH)	-77,77	aether collective (AETHER)	-98,56
Pepe (PEPE)	-77,78	Tomarket (TOMA)	-98,67
Ethena (ENA)	-78,13	Lenfi (LENFI)	-99,20
Polygon (MATIC)	-78,78	KIKICat (KIKI)	-99,75
Cartesi (CTSI)	-78,99	HIVE  (HIVE)	-99,88
Minima (MINIMA)	-79,91	Krypton DAO (KRD)	-99,92
IoTeX (IOTX)	-79,97	Vapor (VAPOR)	-99,96
Livepeer (LPT)	-80,00	Meme TrumpCoin (TRUMP)	-99,97
Realio Network Token (RIO)	-81,49	Akuma Inu (AKUMA)	-99,98
Injective (INJ)	-81,55

                        

Now, let's move on to the individual rankings.

The general graph, but we can't see anything.



Here is what you have been waiting for:

Pos	Users	31/12/2025
1	internetional	1 260,76
2	paid2	1 220,88
3	LoyceV	1 198,08
4	Halab	1 151,09
5	GazetaBitcoin	1 041,95
6	sompitonov	930,82
	Bitcoin	874,81
7	DireWolfM14	821,98
8	memehunter	800,13
9	examplens	746,70
10	ajiz138	656,18
11	icopress	598,04
12	n0nce	527,45
13	B1g4udge	480,78
14	FinneysTrueVision	479,49
	Average	476,40
15	rat03gopoh	463,46
16	shahzadafzal	444,93
17	DYING_S0UL	425,33
18	Smartprofit	422,18
19	GrosWesh	397,12
20	Rikafip	388,15
21	Despairo	337,21
22	jokers10	332,92
23	LogitechMouse	328,47
24	SamReomo	319,81
25	Saint-loup	311,89
	Random_but_balanced	294,28
26	Taskford	293,33
27	tokeweed	287,41
28	xandry	278,98
29	cryptofrka	235,41
30	Woodie	223,82
31	klarki	223,12
32	worldofcoins	204,11
33	Buchi-88	201,36
34	bitmover	185,88
35	famososMuertos	180,52
36	arallmuus	171,39
37	libert19	165,05
38	Koal-84	131,81
39	xLays	99,82
40	slackovic	88,12

                  

Congratulations to internetional, paid2, and LoyceV.

The most surprising thing is that, for once, the winner didn't select the best-performing shitcoin (XMR). It was all about the proportions of his selection.

As usual, I will wait 2-3 days so that everyone can check that I haven't made a mistake. Then I will contact the winners by PM to ask for their BTC address so I can send the rewards.
(What worries me a little is that paid2's last login date is 28/11. I hope he's looking to buy his third house and he will be back soon).

Thank you for this year, it was truly special (a little thought for Woodie ), and the suspense was definitely there.
Be careful when trading shitcoins, don't forget to take your profits.


For the other contest, I won't hide the fact that it seems compromised (or else I will have to go through the hassle of charging participants an entry fee...).

Your ideas of sustainable withdrawal sound quite jumbled.

There is an idea of paying oneself and it has to do with saving and investing.... When you save and invest for the future, you are paying yourself.. even though you might not be able to cash it out for a while.

So my idea of sustainable withdrawal relates to a status that guys might reach after 4-10 years or longer investing, and if the get to overaccumulation status, then they may well be able to calculate ways that they withdraw from their bitcoin at a rate that is sustainable forever, which means that the dollar value of the bitcoin is growing faster than the rate that is being withdrawn.

So for example right now if a person wanted to withdraw $80k per year ($6,666 per month) from his bitcoin stash in a sustainable way, then right now he would need to have at least 14.0757 bitcoin, and of course, it would be better to have a little bit more for a cushion, even though at least having the minimum should work for that rate... and so if he is withdrawing $80k per year and even potentially increasing the dollar rate of withdrawal by 7% each year, he should be able to sustain that withdrawal rate forever and ever and ever.  Of course, it is good to have a bit of a cushion to be able to monitor that the rate is going to be sustainable... or alternatively withdraw at a lower rate or alternatively wait for a few months before starting the withdrawal, even though the threshold requirements seem to have had been met.  Each of us is responsible to make sure that we are calculating correctly so that we do not withdraw faster than the dollar value is growing.   

From my point of view guys frequently start to withdraw before they have reached over accumulation status or the withdraw at rates that are not sustainable meaning that they are depleting the principle so that the value of the bitcoin is not going up faster than the rate of withdrawal...and we should be able to figure out ways to avoid overly depleting our bitcoin stashes.


If you are continuously withdrawing from your profits, then you are likely never going to benefit from the compounding value of your bitcoin, so it could take several doublings before you really start to feel good about your bitcoin stash and your abilities to start to withdraw.

So I don't think that it is good to merely look at how much profits that you have in your bitcoin in order to figure out sustainable withdrawal rate.  I like to calculate the value of bitcoin using the 200-WMA.. which is the average price that anyone would have had achieved if he had been investing steadily for the past 4 years.  Right now the 200-WMA is just over $56.8k.  You can look at my thread about sustainable withdraw if you want to get some better ideas, yet it seems to me that you don't really understand the concept very well, at least from my point of view, and really it is better to get to a status of overaccumulation before you really start to withdraw from your bitcoin stash, and it can take a while to get to such status.. which is part of the reason that frequently we talk about accumulating bitcoin for 4-10 years and beyond... and perhaps reassessing at various points in time.

This thread is about accumulating bitcoin and sure it is good to have goals to get to overaccumulation status, yet you probably should not be rushing the process and you probably should be figuring out ways that you have really understood the ideas of overaccumulation before you start thinking about selling bitcoin before you have even reached enough or more than enough bitcoin to be able to go down that path. 

You Obulis have been registered on the forum for merely two years, and I have trouble imagining anyone being able to get to overaccumulation status in merely two years, unless perhaps you were able to front load your investment in early 2024 or something like that, or maybe you got started with your bitcoin accumulation prior to your registering in on the forum?

 
Maybe a guy who had been investing for 4 years at a fairly steady and regular rate starting from early 2024 like Obulis's forum registration date, then maybe by early to mid-2028, his average costs per BTC might be around $100k or so?  But then we are not sure what the price of BTC would be, yet the more important questions would relate to how many BTC  he had been able to accumulate, rather than if he is able to cash out some of his profits.  Focusing on cashing out profits is surely not getting to the idea of sustainable withdrawal to the extent that profits even matter very much once a guy gets to sustainable withdrawal status, even though surely it seems that the more bitcoin we are able to accumulate, then there may well be times that the compounding value of our holdings will have helped to have had put us into a status of having enough or more than enough bitcoin.  Guys seem to get distracted by whether or not they have profits rather than just ongoingly making sure that they are stacking bitcoin so that at some point down the road, if they do start to sell some of their bitcoin, they are likely just shaving off small amounts of their bitcoin and they might even spend 4-10 years or more accumulating bitcoin, and then another  4 years or so just maintaining the stash without selling any and then maybe after that next 4 year period, then at that point, their bitcoin might be in a sufficient enough size that they can start to withdraw at a rate that might be able to either support their standard of living or maybe to supplement other income soursees that they might have.


I know I likely already responded to your situation, which is that you likely need to figure out some reasonable amount to invest in bitcoin so that you are not depleting any back up funds that you have, and if you are getting into situations where you need to take out loans, then you are not sufficiently living within your means and you are likely not generating enough discretionary income to be investing into bitcoin.  You should be trying to work up to higher level of investments in bitcoin, so you might well need to start out with smaller amounts so that you never have to sell your bitcoin, and of course, you can build up both your emergency funds and your bitcoin at the same time, yet it sounds as if you already have problems managing your money so you need to figure out ways to not over do things so that you don't put yourself into similar situations in the future so that you dont' have to end up selling any of your bitcoin for 10 years or longer. ..and surely some people might need to take close to 20 years before they might have had been able to build up a large enough bitcoin stash.

BTCuon anno community italiana

Aspettando che il nostro buon fillippone rediga il report per dicembre 2025, ne approfitto per dare la prima panoramica annuale della nostra community, troverete nuovi grafici e nuove metriche, sperando che sia di vostro gradimento! Buona lettura!!

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Periodo analizzato: Gennaio-Dicembre 2025 (vs 2024)
Board: Italiano (ID: 28, incluse child boards)

Metrica	Valore (2025)	Variazione vs 2024
Post totali	9166	-1929 (-17.39%)
Merit ricevuti	7851	+1053 (+15.49%)
Merit inviati	7851	+1053 (+15.49%)
Post con Merit	3419	37%

Media Merit/Post: 0.86
Transazioni Merit: 4619
Top 3 Utenti per Post: Ale88, fillippone, babo
Top 3 Merit Receiver: fillippone, Plutosky, Ale88
Top 3 Merit Sender: fillippone, babo, Ale88
Top 3 Rateo Merit/Post: saverio, DensBTC, Smartvirus
Top 3 Utenti per Impatto: fillippone, Ale88, Plutosky

---

Dove si è concentrata l’attività della community nel 2025?

Childboard	Post (2025)	Post (2024)	Variazione
Italiano (Italian)	8378	10448	-2070
Guide (Italiano)	197	65	+132
Progetti	93	54	+39
Off-Topic (Italiano)	135	69	+66
Accuse scam/truffe	31	22	+9
Discussioni avanzate e sviluppo	79	75	+4
Mining (Italiano)	24	51	-27
Alt-Currencies (Italiano)	28	38	-10

---

Utenti attivi: 500+ (di cui 300+ con almeno 10 post nel 2025)

Pos.	User	Post (2025)	Post (2024)	Variazione
1.	Ale88	770	1138	-368
2.	fillippone	698	1080	-382
3.	babo	654	1275	-621
4.	giorgione	523	140	+383
5.	Plutosky	455	533	-78
6.	xenomorfo	410	136	+274
7.	Lillominato89	379	237	+142
8.	gbianchi	339	346	-7
9.	conilmionome	328	667	-339
10.	bastisisca	306	526	-220
11.	cande86	305	57	+248
12.	*Ace*	287	0	+287
13.	Paolo.Demidov	246	369	-123
14.	bitbollo	229	527	-298
15.	banana33	225	75	+150
16.	pewboy	194	39	+155
17.	Italian Panic	192	286	-94
18.	giammangiato	179	496	-317
19.	verdinio	177	133	+44
20.	arulbero	141	52	+89

---

Pos.	User	Merit Ricevuti
1.	fillippone	924
2.	Plutosky	622
3.	Ale88	519
4.	babo	443
5.	gbianchi	386
6.	giorgione	378
7.	*Ace*	374
8.	Lillominato89	317
9.	arulbero	291
10.	xenomorfo	221
11.	cande86	217
12.	pewboy	206
13.	bastisisca	203
14.	banana33	202
15.	bitbollo	202
16.	conilmionome	173
17.	Italian Panic	164
18.	verdinio	157
19.	Paolo.Demidov	143
20.	m4r1o	138

Pos.	User	Merit Inviati
1.	fillippone	3428
2.	babo	1681
3.	Ale88	267
4.	Plutosky	192
5.	giorgione	183
6.	gbianchi	171
7.	*Ace*	167
8.	Lillominato89	135
9.	xenomorfo	109
10.	bastisisca	94
11.	cande86	93
12.	Paolo.Demidov	92
13.	banana33	81
14.	arulbero	77
15.	pewboy	74
16.	bitbollo	71
17.	conilmionome	60
18.	martinom	57
19.	bitcoiner180	55
20.	changaa	50

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Chi ha avuto il maggiore impatto sulla community nel 2025?

Pos.	User	Post	Merit Ricevuti	Impatto
1.	fillippone	698	924	1735.00
2.	Ale88	770	519	1163.50
3.	Plutosky	455	622	1160.50
4.	babo	654	443	991.50
5.	giorgione	523	378	828.50
6.	gbianchi	339	386	748.50
7.	*Ace*	287	374	704.50
8.	Lillominato89	379	317	665.00
9.	xenomorfo	410	221	536.50
10.	arulbero	141	291	507.00
11.	cande86	305	217	489.50
12.	bastisisca	306	203	472.50
13.	banana33	225	202	440.50
14.	bitbollo	229	202	439.50
15.	conilmionome	328	173	424.50
16.	Italian Panic	192	164	368.50
17.	verdinio	177	157	346.50
18.	Paolo.Demidov	246	143	342.50
19.	m4r1o	133	138	334.50
20.	changaa	131	131	327.50

---

Chi distribuisce più merit rispetto a quelli ricevuti?

Pos.	User	Merit Ricevuti	Merit Inviati	Rapporto
1.	LoyceV	8	31	3.88
2.	babo	443	1681	3.79
3.	fillippone	924	3428	3.71
4.	icopress	1	3	3.00
5.	lucolo	5	7	1.40
6.	rojan	3	4	1.33
7.	famososMuertos	1	1	1.00
8.	sp4rhawk	1	1	1.00
9.	Wrib	52	48	0.92
10.	Paolo.Demidov	143	92	0.64
11.	cande86	217	93	0.43
12.	pewboy	206	74	0.36
13.	bastisisca	203	94	0.46
14.	banana33	202	81	0.40
15.	bitbollo	202	71	0.35
16.	conilmionome	173	60	0.35
17.	Italian Panic	164	46	0.28
18.	verdinio	157	49	0.31
19.	martinom	114	57	0.50
20.	bitcoiner180	108	55	0.51

---

saverio ha il rateo più alto: 6 merit per post

Pos.	User	Post	Merit Ricevuti	Rateo
1.	saverio	1	6	6
2.	DensBTC	2	11	5.5
3.	Smartvirus	1	5	5
4.	LoyceV	2	8	4
5.	TryNinja	3	12	4
6.	bitmover	3	10	3.33
7.	Rikafip	12	39	3.25
8.	Makkara	1	3	3
9.	arulbero	141	291	2.06
10.	Sg4j1n3ll0	8	14	1.75

---

Quali discussioni hanno catalizzato l’attenzione nel 2025?

Pos.	Thread	Replies	Link
1.	Re: BITCOIN PUMP!	1428	Apri
2.	Re: [Meta] Andamento sezione italiana	561	Apri
3.	Re: Un modello logistico del prezzo di Bitcoin	413	Apri
4.	Re: Exit strategy fuori dall'Italia	388	Apri
5.	Re: FIRE - Financial Independence, Retire Early	353	Apri
6.	Re: Ross Ulbricht e la sua imminente liberazione	314	Apri
7.	Re: [2025] Bitcoin Pizza Day su Bitcointalk ?	295	Apri
8.	Re: [DEFI USO AVANZATO- ESEMPIO] Ottenere un presito che si rimborsa da solo	203	Apri
9.	Re: Tether investe in Juventus	191	Apri
10.	Re: Bitcoin nelle elezioni americane - 2024 Edition	186	Apri

---

Quali post hanno ricevuto il maggior riconoscimento nel 2025?

Pos.	Post	Merit	Autore	Link
1.	Comprare Bitcoin senza KYC: Bitcoin Bancomat a Milano rispettoso della Privacy	37	fillippone	Apri
2.	[DEFI: USO AVANZATO- ESEMPIO] Ottenere un presito che si rimborsa da solo	36	Plutosky	Apri
3.	[CONCORSO] Andrà su o andrà giù?	28	bitbollo	Apri
4.	Bitcoin Power Law Based Loan Simulator	28	HostFat	Apri
5.	[Meta] Andamento sezione italiana - RECAP FEBBRAIO	26	fillippone	Apri
6.	Re: [Meta] Andamento sezione italiana	26	fillippone	Apri
7.	Che cos'è un rug pull e come evitarlo?	25	verdinio	Apri
8.	[Meta] Andamento sezione italiana - RECAP AGOSTO	25	fillippone	Apri
9.	Re: BITCOIN PUMP!	23	arulbero	Apri
10.	Re: [Meta] Andamento sezione italiana - RECAP APRILE	23	arulbero	Apri

---

• 📉 Attività: Calo dei post totali (-17.39%), ma aumento dei merit (+15.49%). La community premia la qualità più che la quantità.
  
• 🌟 Top Contributor: Fillippone, Ale88 e Plutosky dominano sia per post che per merit. Saverio ha il rateo merit/post più alto (6).
  
• 📊 Distribuzione: Le sezioni "Guide", "Progetti" e "Off-Topic" crescono, mentre "Mining" e "Alt-Currencies" perdono interesse.
  
• 💬 Thread Popolari: Bitcoin, modelli logistici, FIRE e discussioni meta trainano l’engagement.
  
• 🔮 Osservazioni: La board italiana è meno attiva in termini di post, ma più selettiva e orientata alla qualità. Il 2026 potrebbe vedere una ripresa delle sezioni tecniche e un ulteriore consolidamento dei top contributor.
  

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estou bem menos tempo heheh




mas tamo por ai, eu acho que preciso melhorar a qualidade das minhas postagens, por mais que as vezes é cansativo, mas devemos sempre manter a consistência, é isso que nos leva adiante... o fórum me trouxe muitas coisas boas também, é realmente um privilégio receber satoshis em troca de postagens, isso é uma maravilha

Parabéns bitmover, é bastante dedicação mesmo
Você tem muito mais tempo logado que eu, olha só:

Wow, thank you. This is just what I needed to know. My confusion started when I didn't make use of those numbers. This helped alot.

You can have more participants.
30 is the maximum number of winners, not the maximum number of participants.
[/quote]
Okay that's good. Now I think it's time to lock the thread

Since there are numbers of people using the Bitmover tools for selections in their draw which we have them mostly from the games and rounds under gambling section, maybe you contact them and hear about the idea on how they go with the process, you can as well PM Bitmover himself for proper guide, while I will solicit for others that might be interested in using the same tool in the future to have a tutorial guide on how to use it, Bitmover himself may try to help in this situation or any member that have a broader idea on the procedures.

The numbers determine the order in which you paste the names into BitMover's tool.


You can have more participants.
30 is the maximum number of winners, not the maximum number of participants.

Hello, I am Floxynice, currently running a quick naira loan on the Nigerian local board. Right now, I am hosting a raffle draw for my customers, but I’m facing some challenges since this is my first time hosting a raffle draw in this forum.

I just tried conducting a raffle with a random sample of 10 participants to get 3 winners using the Bitmover tool. Before this, the participants had picked random numbers from 1–64. Here are my observations:

• I realized that the tool did not make use of the numbers picked by the participants, only their usernames. What then is the use of those numbers? Is there any way to determine the winners while taking the random numbers picked by the participants into consideration?
• I can only process 30 participants at a time. What about participants that are more than 30?

Sorry, I have already seen the Bitmover thread but decided to make a separate thread for visibility so I can get quick responses, as the raffle is ending today. I’ll lock the thread once I get the answers I need.

Who's holding Monero? I get the feeling the price is more based on actual usage, and it often seems to move in the other direction: when Bitcoin goes up, Monero goes down (and vice versa). At least in the short term I get the feeling Monero is more stable measured in dollars than it is when measured in Bitcoin.

Esse é outro ponto que a malta esquece.
O top50 dos mais ricos do mundo, não tem literalmente esse dinheiro que se diz ter. Os bens que tem (em especial ações) que vale isso tudo.

Se o Musk quisesse largar a vida publica e ir para uma ilha deserta, simplesmente não conseguiria vender nem metade dos seus bens. Porque quem iria comprar? Os valores chegam a patamares, que ninguém quer comprar, porque sabe que a seguir o valor desses bens vai desvalorizar.

No final, eles acabam por ficar reféns da fortuna que tem.

Elon Musk só faz uma parte

Mas tem muito projeto que não recebe financiamento e que começa em universidades com pesquisadores e que podem não ter muito valor comercial no começo para justificar financiamento de pessoas como Elon Musk e suas empresas

Realmente se ele vende todas as ações o dinheiro só troca de mão sendo que quem comprou as ações vira o dono da empresa e o Elon Musk apenas pega o dinheiro deles. As ações também caem muito enquanto ele vende o que causa muita perda de dinheiro no caminho.

Não lembrava que o Buffett ia doar tudo mas espero que ele escolha caridades boas para doar que não vão sumir com o dinheiro e desvirtuar as coisas boas que pode causar. Eu se fosse ele doaria para financiar pesquisas que podem mudar o mundo e avançar as tecnologias e não aquela lorota de acabar a fome sendo que o povo dos países mais pobres sempre continuam na pobreza mesmo com tanto dinheiro sendo doado

Buying when money is available is DCA.

Buying when price goes down is buying on the dip.  DCA and buying on dip are not the same thing since DCA is not price sensitive, even though some people say that they are going to DCA during dips, they are combining strategies and they are not employing strict DCA which is price insensitive and buys when money is available.

Yes.  MSTR/Saylor do the former and not the latter.  MSTR/Saylor is doing DCA.. yet part of their problem in regards to their buying at higher prices is that the money comes available as the price goes up, which they had kind of engineered raising money that way too.  In some sense, MSTR/Saylor proclaims to be price insensitive, which is a form of DCA, yet they had been using the increases in their stock prices as a way to raise money to buy more bitcoin. .which maybe is strange in some sense as we see that it still likely ends up diluting the shares, even though they were proclaiming their practices to be accretive since they were using the money to buy bitcoin.

You can look at the 200-WMA and see what the cost would have had been for anyone buying bitcoin at a steady pace over the past 4 years, and right now the 200-WMA is nearly $57k. 

You can also calculate various DCA amounts within selected periods using DCA calculating tools, such as this one: https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/dollar-cost-averaging-calculator  It might give you the same or similar results as using AI. 

Of course, we know that MSTR really started going to town on their BTC buys starting from the November 2024 Trump pump, and that is when the money really started flowing into MSTR.  What were they supposed to do?  Keep some of that in cash?  Yeah maybe they should have had held back some money for buying on dips, but that has not been MSTR/Saylor's BTC accumulating philosophy or the premise upon which they were receiving money to buy bitcoin.

I have never said that I completely agree with MSTR/Saylor's approach, yet I am not claiming to understand it either, since it does seem to be a strategy to use other people's money to buy bitcoin that is largely controlled by the company and they generally have figured out ways to not have constraints on what they can do with money that is raised.. whether money is being thrown at them or they are taking actions to dilute shares (while saying that they are not diluting, since they are using the money to buy bitcoin).

Thank you once again, overview has been updated.


Their numbers are indeed impressive, but just a few years ago, russians were writing 4x more. Forum was generally much more activbe then though.


In a few months its going to be six 6 years since I started this, and no plans to stopping as long as I am active here.


Later today. 

They will or will not make that accusation against you of multi-accounting simply by IP address and logins. It is possibly an automatic tool triggers something against your account like restrict it to access the site again but if it is multi-accounting accusation, I believe that Betpanda or any casino will need to have more evidence for it.

They will check and investigate some accounts that login from a same IP address with other activities like how they bet, their bet styles, active bet hours and so on. In some appeals from users to such multi-accounting accusations, some casinos investigated and answered like this. I remember most about cases at FortuneJack with their answers and screenshots that blur some personal information of users.

All slots are taken! The current block number is 930137, and the winner will be determined at block 930147 using Bitmover 🎉

Thank you for joining and best of luck!

🎉 Hello, everyone! An exciting new raffle is here, and we’re happy to invite you to join!

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 Sim, ele faz  uma grande contribuiçao ao BTC,
com cursos gartis pra quem nao sabe nada e etc,
mas depois que ele começou a parfticipar de podcasts,
ele esta conseguindo alcançar um publico mais seletivo,
claro, alem de ter aumentado o alcance em geral,
 surgiu varios golpistas usando o nome dele... hahaha...

Obrigado. 

...o problema de falar de tudo, que eu ja falo demais, rsss....
 entao tenho tentado  evitar de falar ..hehehe...

mas , eu nao sou muito fan de Marçal nao viu, tipo do cara ser superior... mas nesse video ae, é beminteressante, porque os dois sao inteligentes... e no final ele convence o marçal a comprar btc hahaha...
..entao to mudando o nome do topico, e tirando o nome do marçal, e vou adicionar mais uns dois ou tres videos ineteressante dele...38tao, ...
...
.. Sim ele  super semelhante ao Daniel, mas a diferença,
 que Daniel sumiu sem responder todos processos,
e ele  esta repondendo...hehhee e nao é pouco.

 no caso, esse video dele que  estou deixando aqui ,
eu acho bem interessante tambem, pois estao tres figuras importaissimas,
sendo duas, que ajudaram o btc a crescer aqui,
mas o video apesar de falarem bem sobre BTC,
assunto é sobre o sistema de trade emA I Saturno V,  do Hildenburg Melão, o Q I mais alto do Brasil.

> Análise Fundamental, Técnica e Conceitual | Hindemburg Melão, Renato Amoedo e Fausto Botelho



 e mais esse do  Renato e o Hildenburg, no RedCast.





 esses videos tem muita informaçao e conhecimento.

com o tempo vou adicionando mais,
 para informaçao e conhecimento somente,

se quiser adicionar mais videos dele, à vontade.
... de acordo com que ele vem dizendo, ele vai sair fora,
 mais pretende voltar hehehe locomemo..

Obrigado pela recomendação, Bitmover.

Já conhecia o Antonopoulos de nome, mas ainda não tinha parado para estudar com mais atenção.
Vou começar pelos vídeos e depois ler o Mastering Bitcoin.

Agradeço por compartilhar o material.

That’s in the event they know that you are poor or broke but, hackers can be weird at times, they would just want to get along with it just to prove that they can, test themselves maybe and have an orgasm doing it.

That’s in the case of hackers only having to hack for monetary purposes. Some of them are out there for what credentials they could get from a KYC activated account, documents they can sell and use in other illicit purposes.

Yeah, there is always a weak link that would be attacked and it always comes from compromise.

Not really sure about this as it depends on the public network you are connected to and how that network is configured.
But, as you said, if you are certain that you didn’t do anything wrong and didn’t intentionally breach the service/casino’s terms, then there is nothing to be afraid of.

hacks usually happen when the password is compromised in some way. A large number of users set passwords with their birthday, children's names or similar, which is quite easy to "hack". Even the most famous hacks happened because the developer leaked the password.
Very far from what we see in the Hollywood movies

Meaning, through public Wi-Fi, hackers can see potential prospects who would be most profitable for them, and they might ignore those who only offer small, insignificant gains?

Also, in my knowledge, public Wi-Fi is really prone to hacking, and this is something the majority of people don't actually know. Some even really wish for public Wi-Fi access, especially in low-income communities or compounds. It’s no wonder so many people get hacked, because some hackers might see 'small change' as worth it if they can gather enough of it from many people to make a large sum.

Aqui pode-se falar sobre tudo, ainda mais que é algo ligado ao Bitcoin.


Tenho a mesma opinião, também não concordo muito com a parte de religião/mulheres.. mas ele se tornou o "Daniel Fraga" dessa geração em relação ao Bitcoin.. é um dos únicos que furou a bolha e é conhecido fora desse meio.

É futuros.. você não possui o token, não tem como depositar/sacar/etc.. só possui uma posição (long/short)..

Vamos ver como será o mercado spot, tem muitas exchanges que já começaram a listar ações tokenizadas, mas nenhuma contra BTC.

Can understand where those peeps coming from there are lots of ways how to hack public wifi but of course only hand full dudes can do that. While changing wifi, device are normal to people casinos won't just flag someone just because of the ip address changes, especially for a casino that accepts VPN use. As long you're not coming from a restricted country changing VPN server from country to another is just okay.

Yeah, you're right; I don't understand why some people become overly paranoid as well. The casino can spot which IPs are your most frequent ones, if you're logging in 100 times from your hometown in Germany for instance, and you login once from Poland, the casino won't suddenly flag you for one IP that may be public or a VPN.

scam top, scam bear done?
gyna pumps precious metals
demoralize all


The 200 day is a decent short term goal post- but it's acted like a long term trend indicator with the volatility and limited history in this market, hence folks like Trace Mayer incorporating it so heavily. 4- and 2- year averages woulda been glacially long-term for coin in say, 2020 or earlier.

Spot bouncing ~5-10% above the 100 week provides essentially the same information: price is low, but not ugly by historical standards with recency bias removed- objectively not as bad as sentiment might indicate, and well above historical "bear markets". Equally as lukewarm as the lackluster October top.

If coin fails to retrace substantially from here and/or makes new ATHs next year, 4-year cycles may only be relevant insofar as the number of blocks between mining reward halvings.

Bitcoin is great at smashing price whisperer gurus' credibility- masterluc, planb, and now bob loukas.

There’s actually a basis for being paranoid here. Maybe you haven’t experienced issues using different Wi-Fi networks while gambling, but I’ve read reports about this before. It might not be standard across all casinos, maybe just random ones, but the risk is still there.

That’s why I’m just being cautious. If using the same Wi-Fi in one household can already be risky, then public Wi-Fi is obviously much worse. That’s the logic behind it.

JJG - I may send Phil an email just to say howdy - but just to make you OpSec happy, I'd do it from one of my alias accounts.  

Yes, I agree. When you use a VPN you also share your connection with other people so you are changing one problem for the other if you think casinos will ban you because of the same connection from many accounts.

And I think with https and encryption there is no need to use VPN for security reasons anymore. VPN is good if you want privacy and if you don't want the connection provider to know what website you access, but this is the only reason to use a VPN now.

That is correct.

The trader is in the wrong mindset, and even if he has great strategies, he is likely going to end up in times that he does not own any bitcoin and the bitcoin price shoots up  (or goes up another step on the ladder without ever coming back down), and bitcoin has done such stair-stepping several times in its history.

It is almost impossible to know when the stair stepping will occur.

Another thing is that a beginner bitcoiner (who is a normal person) usually does not have a lump sum that they can start out buying bitcoin and then figure out some sell price target so that they can then establish a buy back price target, and frequently they would have had been better to not sell and then also to just keep buying on a regular basis as their money comes in.

Let's say that a person in his mid 30's who has an income of $30k had been investing in non-bitcoin investments in his 10 years prior to getting into bitcoin, started buying bitcoin 7 years ago (like in your example - let's say December 1, 2018), and he had around $50k in his regular investments (so he wanted to take $10k out to buy bitcoin) and then thereafter he would buy $100 per week.  His goal was to be able to reach a point in which he can start to withdraw somewhere in the $80k per year from his bitcoin in 10-ish to 15-ish years, and he had a bit of flexibility in his timeline and he considers that his income might end up going up and he might be able to figure out ways to be more efficient in his spending, so he would likely increase his investment into bitcoin around 5% per year, so maybe we can say that he already averaged in vesting around $140 per week since December 1, 2018.

His initial investment of $10k ended up getting him 2.2 BTC, and his investing at $140 per week starting on December 1, 2018 caused him to invest $52k and to get 3 BTC up until now.  So therefore right now he had invested about $62k, and he has 5.2 BTC, which right now would support an income of about $29k per year, yet he wants to get to a point of being able to support an $80k per year income..

Maybe right now he is in his early 40s and he is making about $45k per year, and he figures that in the next 3-4 years, he would continue to invest anywhere between $160 to $220 per week into bitcoin, and he considers that by mid 2029 he will have more than 6 BTC, which he considers to be enough or more than enough to be able to start to withdraw at a pace of $80k per year.  And, surely, if he employs a sustainable withdrawal system, he is likely to be able to increase his withdrawal amount by 7% in dollar terms, each year.

None of this sound unrealistic for a person who might have had stayed serious in his accumulation, and sure, some folks cannot start with a lump sum, and they have to merely put together their weekly bitcoin buys from their income as it is coming in, and they have to figure an amount that is as aggressive as they are able to make it to be without overdoing it, since they will get set back if they overdo it, so whatever amount that they are able to invest into bitcoin, they may well need to also make sure that they are building up their cashflow management systems/practices (which means back up funds) as well.  Anyone who insufficiently accounts for back up funds is putting himself into a position in which his bitcoin investment will be at risk.. so there should be a priority in protecting the bitcoin investment and making sure to have enough (or more than enough back up funds) at each step of the journey in building up the bitcoin investment size.


Yes.  We can see from bitcoin's price history that the long term investors in bitcoin would all be in profits right now as long as they errored on the side of buying bitcoin and holding it.  If they sold their bitcoin or tried to trade it, then it is difficult to know their results.

Regarding the future, even though bitcoin's investment thesis seems ongoingly strong, we do not know its future price performance.  We also don't know aspects of our own execution risk management and if we are going to be successful in the future or make mistakes.

It is problematic to view the future in certainties rather than in probabilistic terms.  Sure, once the future plays out it has become certain at that time, yet if it is still in the future, then it is probabilistic with knowns, unknowns and some of them have higher likelihoods of happening than others, yet some of them are dependent on the happening or the non-happening of others.


If bitcoin's already existing pattern is that you need to be in bitcoin on around 10 days of the year in order to be profitable, and if you are fucking around trading, then you might not be in bitcoin on the days that you need to be in bitcoin in order to be profitable, so you end up fucking up an otherwise good thing because you choose to play around trying to trade it, and then you miss out because you are on in on the days that you need to be in.  Sure, you might get lucky, yet it seems problematic to be trying to take chances, when bitcoin has been one of the best, if not the best place to put money, especially over 4-10 years or longer... and sure the longer that a person has been building their bitcoin stack, the better the personal financial results... especially for those just buying and holding and not trying to trade or to sell and to try to buy back cheaper.

Premier League Discussion, La Liga Discussion, so on and so forth are full of spam? Yes, we can find spam on several pages, but i think the interaction in those threads changes, each week has its own discussion based on the performances of the teams on how they concluded the fixtures.

I'm asking for clarity, do you consider mega threads like the above to be truly low valued, considering there is always new events to discuss each week for a whole 35-38 league matches?