One of the challenges that people feel is not a problem is lack of knowledge and one thing i have noticed with people is that the value money so much that when you comes to risking it they will be so sluggish in taking actions for example the clearly know how unstable the price of Bitcoin can be but the same time they want to make money from but they don't know that volatility of bitcoin is a big advantage because you can use every moment as an opportunity to Buy and the only thing everybody are suppose to be focusing on is to buy, when you buy then you are free, you don't have to bother your self, it should be that you buy than you can sell.

And even the way some people are panicking most times and we all know that the price of bitcoin will not go up for ever but you just have to be patient enough just for you to sell, but people do no longer have that patient all they care about is how to make quick money, and that does not work when it come to bitcoin investment and a lot of ideashave been shared just to make it easy for everyone.

E ele estava certo
Hoje quem ganha mais de 9 mil dolares por mes ja é super rico no brasil 

.
-----X---------------~~~~ desculpa, sei que falo demais....
. entao, sinceramente... ta cada vez mas apertado..., e sim... tenho cada vez mais medos com essas novas e novas  leis...eu as leio,  apenas para manter me informado.

# se voce fizer certinho o que a cançao manda, e cadastrar os endereços de carteira que voce vai usar para sacar e fizer isso, como disse, voce vai prescisar exclarecer o que  fez e pra onde foi, bom, assim entendo.

One of the biggest mistakes that people often make (particularly with assets as volatile as Bitcoin) is measuring too early and too emotionally. When an investor is constantly investing $100 weekly, the first and second or maybe even the third year is merely just a foundation period. The stack at that point is nowhere near the goal, so price swings would feel way louder than the progress. And when investors prioritize or become obsessed with the size of their portfolio at this point, it drastically discourages the investor’s discipline rather than reinforcing it.

And we can see this when we look at the case of long term investors who succeed and those who quit along the way. Those who lasted weren’t more concerned about how their performance is in the short term, but their actual satisfaction came from how always showing up and making sure they buy every week and not just by regularly monitoring the charts. And as time goes on, this mindset compounds just like the asset does.

Your about about the withdrawal goal is also very notable. It’ll only take one who’s thinking long term to be able to expect a $30k income per year from Bitcoin and once the investor frames it that way, then a 10 year or more horizon stops feeling like forever and begins to feel realistic. And when it is combined with a 17% savings rate, that’s definitely not casual investing, it’s more of a deliberate capital allocation. A lot of investors talk about conviction but the only that really shows the level of conviction is their consistency.

And the area where the gamification anger really shines is motivation in the absence of distortion. The real power lies when there’s denominating progress in sats, because it drastically removes all the noise and doubt and replaces it actual progress and accumulation. The same itch that watching price scratches is still the same itch that watching sats accumulate weekly still scratches but this time it takes away the emotional damage. And one thing I’ve observed about folks who stuck with the approach for years is that, as time goes by, it gets to a point where the amount stops feeling small, and this isn’t because they were putting more effort in increasing the size of their stack, but because their attention was more focused on maintaining the habit, and that’s exactly when all the patience and discipline actually pays off its first real dividend.

Brazil used to be a very crypto friendly until 2023
Things are getting worse.
However,  we still have some good tax free trading rules (lower than 7k usd per month).

My own ideas of sustainable withdrawal rate means that it is sustainable forever and ever and ever... so your asset should be growing faster than the rate of withdrawal so that you are not depleting the principle of your assets.  From my point of view, if you are depleting the principle you are doing something wrong in terms of your assets not growing enough or you are withdrawing at a higher rate than you should be.

Now, if you want to purposefully deplete your principle, then that is a different thing that you can do, yet you don't necessarily need to if you want to try to make sure that your assets are growing faster than the withdrawal rate (meaning that the withdrawal rate is actually sustainable forever and ever and ever.. ie perpetually until you late might change it upon your changed circumstances.. I think that it is better to start out with perpetual rather than starting out with a date that you end up outliving your money.. and yeah, that is a personal preference.. yet I think that no one really wants to outlive their money, which is part of the reason to try to make a sustainable withdrawal plan).

You have already heard my theory about being able to withdraw the BTC at 10% per year rate as long as you are valuating of the BTC is based on the 200-WMA and as long as the spot price is more than 25% higher than the 200-WMA.. and I propose reducing the withdrawal rate if BTC's spot price is less than 25% higher than the 200-WMA...

So right now, if you want to withdraw from BTC at $80k per year, then you would need to have at least 14.1784 BTC, and surely it is helpful if you have a bit more for a cushion, yet from my perspective 14.1784 is enough to start and you can give yourself a 7% raise each year, which is $85.6k in year 2, and $91.6, in year 3, etc etc etc..

So there can be at least a couple different solutions if you are worried about depleting your BTC too soon.  

1) withdraw at a lower rate in the beginning and maybe the rate will catch up as bitcoin appreciates and the 200-WMA goes up
or
2) accumulate a bitcoin total quantity that is 10% or 20% higher than your targeted withdrawal rate, so if your target withdrawal rate is $80k per year and you know that the threshold minimum quantity of bitcoin is 14.1784, then perhaps then if you make sure that you have at least 20% more then that would be an additional 2.83568 BTC (17.01408 = 14.174+2.83568), and so as you are already withdrawing $6,666 per month, you have a cushion in your total quantity of bitcoin that will continue to compound in value.

It may well be warranted to treat bitcoin differently in terms of the withdrawal rate as compared with other assets.  I do think that traditional assets could perhaps be withdrawn at 4% per year, yet you still would need to have those invested in ways that have returns that are on average higher than 4% per year... .On the other hand treating all assets with the same withdrawal rate would end up leading to a bit of a skewing of the BTC to withdraw it at a slower rate than its capacity, which would lead us to a result like Phil's suggestion of withdrawing the bitcoin slower or last.

Of course, if we are withdrawing at spot price valuations, then our withdraw is going to be all over the place, which is part of the justification that I have for using the 200-WMA for measuring withdrawal rate with an ability to give 7% raises each year...Of course, if you don't need a 7% raise, then you can forego it or even just delay giving yourself that raise, which would then cause that value that had not been withdrawn to continue to grow and compound depending on how long it might be until you give yourself a raise (up to 7% each year upon your wishes)... If for some reason your BTC is not growing as fast as your withdrawal rate, then you might need to consider your withdrawal rate as well including potentially reducing it.

This is only valid for newer models. 
Leger nano S and Nano X work without this feature. I have both and they dont have such feature. X supports it    but you must enable it.

I bought them years before such feature existed...

Stupid captcha: asks to identify the taller building, but shows just the crane (no building), lol.
AI "implied" that the building is there somewhere, beyond the frame, lol.

I am on vacation, and I am getting there in age (younger than Phil, but not by much), so i was reading a bunch of retirement books.
At the risk of @JJG getting at me...and saying that all you need is btc,

I would say that i read the new book by William Bengen (the "4% rule" guy), who now says that for a 30 year retirement at least 4.7% spent (percentage of portfolio withdrawal per year) is possible.

If the retirement is less than 30 years, and I modeled both 15 and 20 years, then up to 7-8% portfolio withdrawal per year could be safe (without EVER having a 0 in the account based on ALL >100 years of previous data).

The previous data does not contain bitcoin since it is very new, but if even without bitcoin 7.5% withdrawal rate is possible for a 20 year long retirement, then with 20% bitcoin (an arbitrary number with some here having much higher numbers, probably), even 8-10% SWR (safe withdrawal rate) is very doable, imho.

Or, stick to the 4.7% withdrawal rate and leave a large legacy  .

* Take profits.

Basically all you said is applied to everything in life.

However,  i would a argue about this point. Should we always take profits.? I dont think so.

I think profits should only be taken if we are extremely out balanced, if we bought like 1-10% of our overall portfolio in crypto and now we have 50- 70%.

In this situation, rebalancing is necessary. But if that isn't the case, I dont think taking profits is necessary

This is only valid for newer models. 
Leger nano S and Nano X work without this feature. I have both and they dont have such feature. X supports it    but you must enable it.

I bought them years before such feature existed...

"Your keys are always stored on your device and never leave it"

"WE ARE OPEN SOURCE"

Have found it laughable how hard it is to obtain Bitcoin BTC on Testnet with broken faucets out there.

v4: loads.
v3: nope.

Both testnets are severely broken now: v3 coins are hard to get, v4 takes hours to get a confirmation because someone mines only empty blocks.

The QR-codes I created are for testnet4 (and all addresses on the first page have 1 testnet coin each).
PDF: loyce.club/other/print_two-sided.pdf (anyone who needs testnet4 coins: take some, but leave some for someone else)

This is only valid for newer models. 
Leger nano S and Nano X work without this feature. I have both and they dont have such feature. X supports it but you must enable it.

Losing money from gambling is a guarantee because I have tried to avoid losing from several of my bets but I still end up losing which is above my comprehension. The best time I do is to bet small when I am not in a good mood so my mood don't get worse by the day. Betting is just about understanding that you are going to lose money because that is no way losing can be inevitable.

Ma sso acumular eternamente sem nenhuma estratégia de saida ou diversificação tb nao acho a melhor. Mas cada um faz o que quiser com seu dinheiro...

Yeah, I agree. I have made a few bucks sometimes when gambling.

I try to withdrawal my winnings quickly when it it more money than i can lose without stress. So I wont bet them and risk losing them.

I have also lost money several times, but just a few bucks at a time..

Bitcoin is not the only volatile asset in the world. It is not even the most volatitle asset.

Gold is very volatile as well.

Recently, tech stock were also very volatitle, and nvidia was way more volatile than bitcoin.

It is a high risk asset , with many uncertainties and regulations are being made. That causes volatility

Se voce nao sabe se o seu objetivo é aumentar 10% ou 5000% , voce nao tem objetivo.

É uma questão de ter ativos que rendam uma base inflacao + alguma coisa e outros ativos que possam render muito mais ou muito menos. Nao da pra botar tesouro direto e bitcoin com o mesmo objetivo...

Acho que hoje em dia o bitcoin esta menos volatil e ate da pra falar em proteger da inflacao.

Mas em 2010, 2017, ate 2020, nao fazia sentido falar em proteger da inflacao. Era ativo de altíssimo risco mesmo. Quem comprava pensando nisso ia vender com 30-100% de gamho

É o mesmo de falar em de proteger da  inflacao com NVIDIA. Nao é por isso que as pessoas deveriam comprar nvidia.

oi, prescisa necessariamente ser imagem de IA? nao pode por exemplo ser mao livre?

Muito bom, o @rdluffy sempre agitando os sorteios aqui da nossa aba, eu queria ganhar esse, afinal, nunca ganhei nenhum dos sorteios daqui... será que sou pé frio?

O @rdluffy sempre fazendo ótimos sorteios!

Boa rdluffy.  Ja virou tradição esse sorteio de Natal aqui na aba local

Are you joking? I only have just little amount of money on my gambling account, something like $10 to $50.

Whenever you are holding more than a few bucks in a casino, like 100 usd, you should enable 2fa.

Lol it didnt died

It is the biggest image database in the web.

It is working perfectly.  However,  it wont work in the forum because bitcointalk is blocking it to preserve users privacy from leaking private data such as ip.

It is a forum limitation and policy, it is not dead lol

Acho que depende tambem dos objetivos .

Lol it didnt died

It is the biggest image database in the web.

It is working perfectly.  However,  it wont work in the forum because bitcointalk is blocking it to preserve users privacy from leaking private data such as ip.

It is a forum limitation and policy, it is not dead lol

Mas a auto custodia nao ta sendo proibida, isso nem da pra fazer. Ta segundo regulada. Vove tem que cadastrar endereços no seu nome pra sacar de corretora. Nao faz grande diferença, pessoalmente  nem uso tanta exchange centralizada.

Dai vc criar um endereco pra cada corretora que usar, saca e manda pra outro endereco. Ate um mixer se quiser.

Sobre kyc de p2p, sempre tem se usar fiat, mesmo que voce nao perceba. Não existe transação bancária sem vazar seu CPF. Com seu CPF em mãos, o p2p faz o quiser com ele. Pode declarar pra receita sem te avisar (pois é vantajoso pra ele)

At maximum risk I get at most x2 , after dozens of tries...

I stopped playing because it is so hard and not cost effective... just lost money lol

Yeah.. but we are talking about bitcoin... and protecting our bitcoin investment, so there is a certain kind of targeted way of applying the situation... so that hopefully we never have to tap into our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.

I will concede that people will ikely have a week or two or maybe even up to 6 weeks of back up funds to cover their expenses.. and so yeah, that could be an "emergency fund" to the extent that they might not have any other place that they can draw upon if some kind of an emergency were to happen or merely just a period of time that the income goes down and/or the expenses go up.


Some fluctuations and uncertainties in expenses and/or income might be somewhat known in advance.. so that would not really be emergency, even though extra funds might be needed to account for those kinds of anticipated possible fluctuations that may or may not end up actually happening.


Of course. Discretionary income is used to invest, consume and/or save.. so each week or month (depending on frequencies of getting paid) income will come in and calculations might be made regarding how much is needed to cover various basic expenses before determining how much is left that would be considered to be discretionary funds.  Also the discretionary funds from the past had likely been used to consume, invest and/or save, and the consumption ones would be totally gone or almost totally gone depending on what they were spent on.. It they were spent to buy a blender, then the blender may still have value, but not the same amount of value that it was bought for when it was new.  so from the investment and savings, with bitcoin we are trying to protect that investment.. or at least protecting our bitcoin seems that it should be a priority for someone who is serious about bitcoin, even though there will be variation.  Usually the savings would be emergency funds and/or reserves with the reserves having more flexibility for how it is used, even to buy bitcoin.  Usually the idea of emergency funds, is that it would not be available for buying bitcoin unless it maybe is high in amount and potentially misclassified as emergency funds when it is really reserves.. yet each of us should have some sense that we do not want our cash to go below certain limits absent some kind of an actual emergency event, so yeah, we would not buy bitcoin with emergency funds since buying bitcoin should not be considered an emergency, even if the price might have dipped to "bargain" levels.


Whether we call them emergency funds or back up funds or even extra cash, there is some need for a certain amount of this extra cash in order to provide some assurance that we are not investing beyond our discretionary income.. The idea of not having any extra cash means that you spent all of it, so then you have to wait until your next paycheck before you have any money.  That is ridiculous for anyone, and even more ridiculous for someone who is trying to protect his bitcoin from having to tap into them at a time that is not completely of their own choosing.. and if bitcoin is the ONLY investment, then bitcoin is the ONLY place to go if some shortage in cash comes.. so then the bitcoin would be serving as the emergency funds.. which surely is not a good place for anyone who is poor or who is relatively early in his bitcoin building process.

On the other hand, if a person had been building his bitcoin stash for a couple of cycles and maybe he has 2x to 5x or even more of the value of his annual expenses in bitcoin, then he is not greatly prejudiced by ailing/refusing to keep any back up funds and even using his bitcoin as his back up funds.  Sure, he would be better off to keep some cash, but the fact that his BTC stash is fairly large, he is not going to be greatly damaged if he might haqve to sell some extra bitcoin, yet he might be regretting his choices if the bitcoin price goes shooting down and then all of a sudden he has cash shortages. so guys have to figure their level of risk and how much damage might happen, and it seems to me that many newbies and even poor people will end up making bad choices, even thinking that their bitcoin stash is getting large when it has not even gotten to a point of covering a year of their expenses. 

Frequently, I personally will consider that bitcoin stash is at fuck you status if it is worth 10x or more of the annual expenses at the 200-WMA valuation.. so if a guy currently wants an income of $80k per year from his bitcoin, then right now, he would need to have at least 14.2184 BTC to be at the threshold level, so maybe if a guy has something close to that level of bitcoin with those aspirations to draw $80k per year from his bitcoin, then maybe he does not need to have any extra back up funds if he also has income coming in from other sources (like he had not yet quit his current job).

There are various ways to have back up funds, and surely poor people and/or even guys who are early in their bitcoin accumulation journey, they are likely gong to need to be more cautious and even more purposeful to make sure that they have back up funds and even to a high enough level and they are protecting their bitcoin and even ongoingly protecting their ability to ongoingly (such as weekly) continue to grow their quantity of bitcoin..

In the end, guys can do whatever they like and if guys are sloppy in regards to those questions of back up funds and protections, then they may well end up getting themselves in trouble in terms of their bitcoin holdings or even serving as bad role models for others, since they may well be involved in gambling with their bitcoin rather than actually investing in a way that ensures both the protection and the ongoing building of their bitcoin stash.


It might be difficult to consider what might be good for no coiners, unless we are comparing no coiners to coiners, so that we can understand and appreciate the point and the contrast that might be being made.

We surely have people who are at various points in their bitcoin accumulation journey.. and so a no coiner might also be considered a precoiner and a low coiner could be engaging in all of the practices that are available to him to build his bitcoin stash, even though he considers himself to still not have enough bitcoin.  There might also be low coiners who are more whimpy (and perhaps less serious) in their bitcoin accumulation journey.

We cannot necessarily completely capture the details of where someone might be in relation to his bitcoin journey - even though surely many of us likely consider that building a bitcoin stash is an important thing for everyone, even though some folks might be more challenged in the process including  that they might not have a lot of discretionary income that allows them more choices in regards to building bitcoin, building back up funds and also being able to consume discretionarily in a way that does not contribute twoards their being deprived in their consumption levels.



You are likely correct to the extent that you are suggesting that high level skills are not necessary in order to get into bitcoin and also to put solid bitcoin buying and solid cashflow management practices in place... yet, even though some folks are faster learners than others, we still should not be poo-pooing the value of experience, even though some folks might have a lot of bad habits and then their experience might be just reinforcing their bad habits if they are not able to identify and work towards improving their bad habits..


For sure, many of us consider getting started to be very important even if some folks are faster learners than others.  Sometimes we have guys who are brand new to the forum and brand new to bitcoin, and within a short-period of time, they are really showing that they are grappling with the topic of bitcoin investment and putting bitcoin investment into practice in a way that they are clearly learning and/or even bringing some of their investment and cashflow management experiences that they might have had prior to their getting into bitcoin.

When I came to bitcoin in late 2013, I had around 20-ish years of experience in both investing and cashflow management practices, and so I attempted to apply several of those practices in my early stages of my bitcoin accumulation journey, and sure some of the practices and knowledge that I had gotten from my earlier experiences fit right into bitcoin, yet there were various other particulars about bitcoin that influenced my continued learning and even having to make some adjustments in regards to what I had been doing previously. 

So there were aspects of my life that had changed by the time I came to bitcoin that were not completely related to bitcoin, and I would have had to make some of those adjustments whether I had come across bitcoin or not, so I couldn't have completely applied my earlier experiences to bitcoin as I might have had been doing 10 or 15 years earlier, since my situation was not the same as it had been 10 or 15 years earlier.  So any adaptings that we do at various points in our bitcoin journey are likely going to have several imperfections, and even new places in which we might be vulnerable to making errors, even if we had some related experiences... and surely the more aggressive that we choose to be might also bring more potentials for errors or even identifying limits that we know to exist in regards to how aggressive that we might be ready, willing and/or able to be. 

Surely, there may be some guys who get complacent or even think that they have learned everything or maybe they are applying wrong frameworks to new experiences, so we can attempt to have some humbleness in our approach so that we might be more able to identify and apply some new learnings and/or sometimes even be able to experiment in ways that we had not previously attempted based on our being in a better place, whether based on our experiences or based on a new place that we had put ourselves... and even thinking back, there were some areas in which I consider that I made some fairly big "rookie" mistakes, yet I had not even completely realized that I was making rookie mistakes, which means that they should have had been places where I could have had and should have had easily identified. 

Let me give an example. In mid-to-late 2015, I had been slowly accumulating bitcoin for most of the year (even though I had some cashflow problems), and the BTC price had stayed in the $220 to $250 range for almost the whole year.. and so around May or June my cashflow management had improved, and I continued to buy bitcoin with perhaps around 50% of my authorized amount, and so  since I had been beat up so much from bitcoin's price drop from all the way from $1,200 to $200 in 2014 and even lingering into 2015, I thought that it would be prudent for me to hold back some money for buying the dip, and in the end, my holding back of 50% for further dips was too much. .since the amount was getting to be a lot since it was building up from June, July, August, September and October, so by the time late October came, the BTC price pretty much went up from $300 to $500 in a very short period of time (maybe over 2-3 weeks), and in early November, I ended up using around 80% of my saved up funds to buy right around $500 (the top for that price spurt), and then I felt like I was totally out of money.. even though the BTC price ended up quickly correcting back to $300 and then it ended up mostly getting stuck in the lower $400s for about 5 months before it went back over $500... so I ended up getting emotional and making mistakes, and I probably should have had been using that money the whole time prior to the November 2015 price spurt, and I probably should not have had panic bought because the BTC price nearly doubled in a short period of time... and so I ended up learning from that event so that I would not repeat that same kind of a mistake again.

Emergency funds are must for everyone whether he is investing in Bitcoin or not.

It's a good practise to separate some money for emergency funds that we can use in case of emergency. Life is very uncertain and emergencies don't arrive with prior intimation that's why we need to remain ready to face them.

We can invest in Bitcoin with consistency and for long term only if we have money to fulfil daily requirements and emergency funds to counter the emergencies. That's why it's recommended to invest in Bitcoin with discretionary income.   

How can somebody say emergency funds is a must? Are you going to report somebody to the authority because they don't have an emergency funds? What you can say is that emergency funds are essential for everybody especially when you have a long term project like Bitcoin investment that you won't like emergency expenses to compel you to sell prematurely. Anybody that has money to buy Bitcoin can no doubt do so whether you have discretionary funds or not but without discretionary funds from where emergency funds and Bitcoin accumulation funds are supposed to come out from you are not qualified for long term hodl. Financial management is important if you want to succeed to be buying and hold for a long term, without extra money from your income to be funding your discretionary funds you cannot succeed as "a long term investor"

It seems that you don't understand what @ 7juju is actually trying to say, he's actually talking about no coiner not an investor. However, I totally agree with him because I see no reason why a no coiner would chose to build emergency funds instead of building his discretionary income, the question is for what reason are you building the emergency fund for when you currently do not have any investment/ or business that is floating? You see that building emergency funds when you currently do not have any investment floating is obviously a waste. So @7juju is actually correct when he said that having emergency funds as a no coiner seems to be optional since there's no investment at hand where having emergency funds is considered very important but in this case there's nothing like that.

Well I must say it’s quite difficult to overly analyze and categorize them into one perspective, because you can emphasize and understand that their sense of reasoning is quite different in the sense that I don’t really understand why most investors would mostly want to apply so much experience when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, having an adequate understanding or experience doesn’t still guarantee anything when it comes to investing and buying bitcoin, which is why basic knowledge is just important on how to buy and hold bitcoin and how to safeguard our Bitcoin investment.

Perhaps I could actually consider having those little understanding and knowledge about Bitcoin and how to make investments and stay consistent and hold Bitcoin for a very long period of time, making mistakes are normal but how we can react after making that mistakes is what really matters most, and some individuals finds it difficult to learn things very fast which is why it can be important to just buy bitcoin, probably by learning from someone who knows how to go about buying bitcoin, I would prioritize buying bitcoin automatically and immediately without wasting of any time.

There are others services like imggur and imgdb as well.

But i believe there is no problem in having alternatives. However,  talkimg works better than any other here